A mate just had an interesting home visit for his renewal. A few areas of concern.

[Liveonce]

What is an LBR?

Long barrelled pistol I think the OP is referring about.

 

[Oracle]

He said the slot….not the FAC, which is odd….I’m not sure they can revoke a slot “instantly” without taking he cert away.

All sounds a bit odd….will it be on field-sports TV??

Obviously argued his case,at some point during the term of his previous certificate, that he had “good reason” to acquire/use a S1 shotgun. Having not acquired it within the lifetime of that certificate, presumably as they see it, within a reasonable time scale, they obviously feel that his “good reason” no longer exists.

 

[Liveonce]

Long Barreled Revolver

Also long barrel semi autos available.

away of making a pistol fit section 1 FAC specification rather than section 5.

 

[saddler]

Obviously argued his case,at some point during the term of his previous certificate, that he had “good reason” to acquire/use a S1 shotgun. Having not acquired it within the lifetime of that certificate, presumably as they see it, within a reasonable time scale, they obviously feel that his “good reason” no longer exists.

He's not long sold his Saiga & has been looking for another to replace it

 

[Oracle]

Looks like the officer visited your mate whilst having a “bad” day...cannot think of any other “reasonable” explanation other than what I suggested.....Time to open a dialogue with the Firearms Licensing Manager.

 

[Kjf]

He's not long sold his Saiga & has been looking for another to replace it

So he didn't have the sec1 shotgun ? Just the ammo ?

If he's sold the sec 1 and has not got another slot on his ticket for a new one ,,,,,

This could be the problem ,

Happy to be corrected on the matter though

 

[Klenchblaize]

 

[paul o']

Was sec 1 slug part of sec S/g Or stand along , As you can hold if the ammo is stand alone or waiting for a 1-4-1 same cal and the F L office are informed of holding , and 1-4-1 is ongoing . Surly on the 141 Form on ammo held this was put down as holding ! so there knew there was an overlap ?
Calling B.A,S,C CALLING BASC Ahh no help there then ?

 

[ChesterP]

Not enough detail posted on the specific case as evidenced by the naturally speculative nature of many posts. Trouble is there's always 2 sides to these things so impossible to post a sensible argument either way without full knowledge.

That in mind it does sound like a few questionable observations and actions were either threatened or carried out. I also thought that there was no such thing as a partial revocation. Either someone is in breach of the FAC conditions and law or they're not. If they are then the police are entitled to take away all firearms and revoke certificates but such decisions as already pointed out are rarely taken on the spot unless a call is put into the licensing manager for a serious breach. Holding ammo which has no slot would be grounds as technically it's a breach of the Act and could not have been legally obtained unless previously on the cert.

As to the comments about building up the AR 15 action...then providing the final rifle meets all regs why not? It seems no different than any other custom build unless modified in such a way as to be in breach of the Act. Not enough data though to make a qualified observation but sounds a little premature to threaten seizure if legally done?

 

[8x57]

Seems that his force do things a little differently??

1. The WPC (FEO?) turned up in a marked POLICE car in full uniform. She also brought a male colleague, also in uniform - supposedly being trained for the job.

2. She counted every single round of ammunition he had in the safe

3. She seized his Solid Slug ammo & said his S.1/FAC shotgun slot is being instantly revoked

4. She refused/questioned his application for a .577/450 rifle as "it's extremely powerful/dangerous" and asked if he had "received any formal training or experience in using that caliber"

5. She heavily queried his application for a LBR -again - asking if he had used one.
He even pointed out that it's NOT legal to use one in the UK without a slot on the FAC = she refuted his statement as incorrect

6. He asked about the options of either having the components for an AR15 upper build added to his FAC individually, or added then passed to an RFD for the final assembly.
Her reply was that such demands could well see someone smashing his door in to raid him for illegal activity...


There were a few other comments and such of a similar nature.
He's not in any associations, so I'm getting a few pointers together for him so he can fire in an email/complaint

Sounds like she isn't very experienced in this role and she's already training someone else. You could even say it may be a case of the partially sighted leading the blind.

The .577/450 bit reminds me of a friend who years ago when the local beat constable used to deal with firearms applications made an application for a variation for a .357 mag carbine.
His local bobby returned the application saying "There's no way that you are getting that, they hunt elephants in Africa with those, my boss told me and he knows these things". My friend politely corrected him and the varied certificate was returned to him a week or so later.

 

[One on top of two]

It baffles me as to why know body records the interview/conversation? Your not under caution and it perfectly legal to to so as long as you inform them that a recording is taking place for your security and clarification . It’s surprising how polite people can be .

 

[SimpleSimon]

To add, the previous club he was in DID run S.1 shotgun events - our present main club doesn't - so I am fixing this aspect by getting him in a relevant association.
It was that fact that the ammo seizure/S.1 slot revocation was purely verbal & with zero prior notice that I found odd

No club = no good reason.

If this is a renewal then it could just be that they are refusing to grant (a renewal is the same, in effect, as a brand new grant from a licensing perspective) the S1 shotgun on his new certificate. So it's not being revoked as such, he just isn't being granted the slot as he no longer has good reason.

 

[sy247]

Your friend is right about the LBR.

 

[long_range_rob]

I do despair at the lack of firearms knowledge some FEO’s show. For example I have heard of a .357 pistol being granted for humane dispatch, the wording was .357 Pistol so the chap went out and got a Sig Sauer in .357 Sig which really miffed the FEO as he didn’t want anyone having a self loading pistol, even with a 2 shot magazine. All comes down to a lack of knowledge

 

[308tikka]

Far from it
He's in a bit of a shock/panic state - and he's well qualified in the topic matter as he's a JNCO Armourer

Well it isnt unknown for there to absolute clowns in the workshop.

They probably only turned up to check his hard drives!

 

[Triggermortis]

I do despair at the lack of firearms knowledge some FEO’s show. For example I have heard of a .357 pistol being granted for humane dispatch, the wording was .357 Pistol so the chap went out and got a Sig Sauer in .357 Sig which really miffed the FEO as he didn’t want anyone having a self loading pistol, even with a 2 shot magazine. All comes down to a lack of knowledge

I bought an SL5i mod stamped .223 for a .22 hornet, FEO called me stating I’d made an unauthorised purchase as the mod not for a hornet!!!
I asked him what calibre bullet does a hornet, .222, .223 or any .22 centrefire use?
Silence on the the other end of the phone for a few seconds, so I asked if he knew the difference between the calibre of a rifle and which round the rifle is chambered in?
Then the penny dropped…

 

[enfieldspares]

He had zero prior warning of this and no written notification of the slug being seized or the FAC shotgun slot being removed

This is from the Tories legislation AFAIR. Use it or lose it. So if there has been a significant gap between the authority to acquire a s1 shotgun and actually acquiring one then the argument will be that the individual has no "good reason" to need one. The ammunition will then come under scrutiny as to why if they have no s1 shotgun to use it in the individual has a stock of slug. It has long been in the Home Office guidance that saving money (buying ammunition in bulk as it is cheaper) isn't accepted as justification. I may not agree with what has happened but I can see the thread of logic behind it. And I think that the revocation may well have been licensing manager directed.

 

[MAH]

Yes - full permission for 12-ga slug on his FAC

What was the original justification?
Was this linked to being a member of a target shooting club. - eg Practical Shotgun?
If yes, is he still a member and history of using it?

Or.

Was the FAC shotgun (3 plus magazine) justified for pest control? If yes then that might explain why the slug permission has been revoked.

As Stalker said a polite email requesting clarification would be a good way forward.

M

 

[Apthorpe]

This is from the Tories legislation AFAIR. Use it or lose it. So if there has been a significant gap between the authority to acquire a s1 shotgun and actually acquiring one then the argument will be that the individual has no "good reason" to need one. The ammunition will then come under scrutiny as to why if they have no s1 shotgun to use it in the individual has a stock of slug. It has long been in the Home Office guidance that saving money (buying ammunition in bulk as it is cheaper) isn't accepted as justification. I may not agree with what has happened but I can see the thread of logic behind it. And I think that the revocation may well have been licensing manager directed.

I didn't think that Section 1 ammunition needed to be used with a Section 1 shotgun. Is it not the case that one could have Section 1 slugs for a "good reason" to be used in a normal shotgun?

 

[8x57]

I didn't think that Section 1 ammunition needed to be used with a Section 1 shotgun. Is it not the case that one could have Section 1 slugs for a "good reason" to be used in a normal shotgun?

Exactly the case with mine.