AW's ..... Ever had a bad one???

[bogtrotter]

No resentment on my part as such Apache,

The key word you use is OPTION, but how long before that option is then seen as desireable and enforced by FLO's

Why not have a compulsory First Aid, Manual Handling, Off Road Driving Cert,

The £800 you quote wouldnt cover the diesel weve paid sending our lads on the ever growing PC courses this year alone..

Carefull what you wish for i recon..

Not stirring but following on from a thread regarding charges made by pro stalkers ,which you posted on

AS a pro I have already had to do the First Aid; Manual handling, ATV, Quad courses not off Road Driving as yet but I am sure its only a matter of time, First Aid and ATV courses must be renewed on a regular basis three to five years at considerable cost, Its a requirement of most insurance policy's that you have these certificates.

As in any business these cost reflect in the price of the end product.

IMO we have enough red tape as is, we don't need anymore.

 

[Eric the Red]

This is a dismal thread, full of negativity.

Shame on the thread starter, what was the point of such sh*t stirring ?

Perhaps some attempt at further empire building.

Or maybe its "divide and rule".

You "pros" are so easily manipulated.

The days of "incredible" witnesses have been over for a while, I hope.

Before posting, take a hard look at how the majority of this site (maybe your future clients) look on at this self destructive behaviour.

Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. ~H.G. Wells

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Not stirring but following on from a thread regarding charges made by pro stalkers ,which you posted on

AS a pro I have already had to do the First Aid; Manual handling, ATV, Quad courses not off Road Driving as yet but I am sure its only a matter of time, First Aid and ATV courses must be renewed on a regular basis three to five years at considerable cost, Its a requirement of most insurance policy's that you have these certificates.

As in any business these cost reflect in the price of the end product.

IMO we have enough red tape as is, we don't need anymore.

Bogtrotter, you have misread my post completely or i havnt come across as intended

look at the post seven above the one youve commented on and you will see i was attempting to be retorical

i am infact totally in agreement about red tape..

Youve mentioned my posting about Pro's, but i dont think youll find ive commented atall on stalking costs and charges made for stalking...

Terry

 

[Jelendeer]

The currnt system is fine might be an idea to monitor it abit more but thats just a personal opinion but it has got a lot beter over the years.

I agree David, and it has got a lot better than it was. But it's clear from some posts that there are still a few problems that need ironing out.

Credit to DMQ for getting rid of those who are abusing the system, and those that simply are not providing the service that they are entrusted to do so, but it still needs keeping a close eye on (according to some of the previous posts)

Regards,

 

[SussexFallow]

Interesting thread . As someone who stalks fallow i find it much harder to complete level 2 stalks than say stalking roe which are much easier to get a shot on. Does this mean someone who completes on fallow is a better stalker than someone who shoots roe ?? I just like collecting badges even expensive little black ones.

ATB Steve

 

[www.yorkshireroestalking.]

Well its bad to say fallow as all deer can be very difficult. You want to try our yorkshire roe, they drive me bonkers.
I have always found fallow easy in comparison, funny eh?
I think it was more ment as a comparison to someone killing x3 munties and extracting them and a hill red stag for instances. Same things but VERY different.
I think the dsc2 should be done under at least x2 A.W.'s on x2 successful stalks that would be a vast improvement IMO

 

[SussexFallow]

my point exactly john . its all a load of b*ll&cks really just a money making scheme. I have been out with AW s who took 60 quid and walked me round a shot out wood and have been lucky to have been charged sweet FA by genuine stalkers . Too may people getting it via the back door in my opinion. if im ever up your way on my travels i will be sampling your yorkshire roe!!

ATB Steve

 

[Jelendeer]

my point exactly john . its all a load of b*ll&cks really just a money making scheme. I have been out with AW s who took 60 quid and walked me round a shot out wood and have been lucky to have been charged sweet FA by genuine stalkers . Too may people getting it via the back door in my opinion. if im ever up your way on my travels i will be sampling your yorkshire roe!!

ATB Steve

Hi Steve,

Interesting post. It seemed that the 'back door' route was a problem years ago, but wasn't aware that it is still a problem now. Do you really think this sort of stuff is going on?

I find it hard to believe that - with the cross referencing that is now done - anyone wanting to short circuit the system would have to make sure that EVERYTHING tied up perfectly, and that the 'stories' matched to the finest detail.

Does any AW really want to risk exposure????

 

[woodfordfallow]

I have a guest wanting to do his level two on my ground i contacted two AWs. one said £250 + trouphy fees per day on his permission.
Or £200 per day on my ground is this the going rate.The second said £50 per stalk.
When i done my level two. The AW done mine for free.
He was not a friend but he is now. I gave him a free syndicate pass for a year.
I think you should charge a fair price for a days work.

I would be interested in the going rate it is hard work with lots of writing up.

woodfordfallow

 

[bobt]

I cant imagine anyone spending a couple of hours doing the write up, or however long on the actual stalk/gralloch etc, and not charging for their time.

would you spend half a day helping a total stranger for free?

 

[Simjim33]

Can anyone tell me what the actual value to having DSC L2 is? Because the way I see it unless your guiding clients, who you would expect you to be at a certain level. I can't see a benefit. I guess there is a lot of others that feel the same way judgeing by the uptake levels from level1 to level2 IMHO.

 

[woodfordfallow]

I must say most farmer's dont know anything about DMQ or could care less .
They want good honnest guys to do a good job.
If you went with papers in hand to get permission it wouldn't work.
I go see a problem with what ever might be eating his crops .Then go offer my
sevices and tell him who i already do it for .
Farmers know other farmers they can always check you out,
I sometimes ask the farm i am shooting on to ring next door.
You will be suprised how many farmer's will say the chap who
shoots here hasen't been for a year.
Some of my farms i haven't been to for over a year.
So they are up for grabs.
But level one says that you care about what you do
to all other stalkers .
Life dosn't change with level two .
regards woodfordfallow

 

[Paul at Fechan]

I'm not saying that all 'just' level ones aren't capable stalkers but... Level 2's can demonstrate to another person how to stalk, make an effective culling shot, gralloch and extract to meet current standards for large game hygiene and quote specific elements of key legislation and requirements to meet minimum standards. This is because they have done it under assessment conditions at least 3 times with all bells and whistles and for the most many times before and after to a comparable standard.

Got to be honest but I've stalked with a lot of people who have level 1 and have 'shot' a fair few beasts and while they can pass level 1 I wouldn't trust them gralloch a beast I shot and extract it cleanly. The key is obviously practice and repetition but it's all about hands on experience guided by those who know what they're doing is actually to industry standards rather than 'it'll be right' standards

 

[Simjim33]

I'm not saying that all 'just' level ones aren't capable stalkers but... Level 2's can demonstrate to another person how to stalk, make an effective culling shot, gralloch and extract to meet current standards for large game hygiene and quote specific elements of key legislation and requirements to meet minimum standards. This is because they have done it under assessment conditions at least 3 times with all bells and whistles and for the most many times before and after to a comparable standard.

Got to be honest but I've stalked with a lot of people who have level 1 and have 'shot' a fair few beasts and while they can pass level 1 I wouldn't trust them gralloch a beast I shot and extract it cleanly. The key is obviously practice and repetition but it's all about hands on experience guided by those who know what they're doing is actually to industry standards rather than 'it'll be right' standards

No disrespect Paul,

but I still don't see what extra it gives you! There is a vast discrepancy between the up take of the two levels. I don't think the standards can be justly said to be improved if like me the majority of level 1's look at level 2 and think "so what" or just, the money I spend on level 2 could be spent on more stalking/ first lease.

Like I said I can see Slight advantage in case of some one who has a lease and wants to take out clients to supliment that expenditure, or wanting to declair them selfs as "pro " being able to say I have had my skills looked at and verified to a certain degree by an independent process.

But standards required of level 2 from what I can see are still "basic detection awareness " arnt they? Correct me if that's wrong.

 

[prometheus]

No disrespect Paul,

but I still don't see what extra it gives you! There is a vast discrepancy between the up take of the two levels. I don't think the standards can be justly said to be improved if like me the majority of level 1's look at level 2 and think "so what" or just, the money I spend on level 2 could be spent on more stalking/ first lease.

Like I said I can see Slight advantage in case of some one who has a lease and wants to take out clients to supliment that expenditure, or wanting to declair them selfs as "pro " being able to say I have had my skills looked at and verified to a certain degree by an independent process.

But standards required of level 2 from what I can see are still "basic detection awareness " arnt they? Correct me if that's wrong.

I think you must have the perception that attainment of level two costs a fortune and eat into a stalking budget.
I admit you have to acquire the portfolio however given what we spend on our sport generally i think is modest. After that it's just more stalking which we do anyway. Admittedly the stalking has to be done with a witness but that needn't cost more than a standard accompanied payed stalk, many witnesses don't charge extra. If you have your own ground I am sure there are witnesses that would travel to you in exchange for a stalk themselves. I admit I have never done that myself though.
Overall I think there is a definite advantage to achieving level 2 if you wish to gain stalking or indeed under some circumstances not loose it. I have been given ground that I would not have got without it so for me it really paid off and thats why I witness and don't charge for it.

 

[Jelendeer]

No disrespect Paul,

but I still don't see what extra it gives you! There is a vast discrepancy between the up take of the two levels. I don't think the standards can be justly said to be improved if like me the majority of level 1's look at level 2 and think "so what" or just, the money I spend on level 2 could be spent on more stalking/ first lease.

Like I said I can see Slight advantage in case of some one who has a lease and wants to take out clients to supliment that expenditure, or wanting to declair them selfs as "pro " being able to say I have had my skills looked at and verified to a certain degree by an independent process.

But standards required of level 2 from what I can see are still "basic detection awareness " arnt they? Correct me if that's wrong.

It is surprising how many people I hear of that have shot their three deer for DSCL2, and then proudly wave their DSCL2 certificate and claim that they are now 'deer managers'!!!

 

[DazT]

What qualification do you need to be a deer manager?

A guy i did my level 1 with got a job managing a deer park 2 weeks after passing his level 1.

 

[Jelendeer]

What qualification do you need to be a deer manager?

A guy i did my level 1 with got a job managing a deer park 2 weeks after passing his level 1.

I don't disbelieve that. Some people who are doing their DSCL1 have many years of experience, both professionally and as recreational stalkers.

What I was referring to was the people who have ONLY shot 3 deer, and THEN claiming to be deer managers.

Regards,

 

[DazT]

Ah i see - fair enough!
But what qualifications do you need to be a deer manager???

 

[Glen Cadwallader]

I've got 18 National certificates including Deer Management/Deer Biology/Predator control/Conservation/Estate management/Slaughter & Prep of game/ Wildfowl management/ Grouse moor management, Have shot over 1000 deer myself, stalked hundreds more for guests to shoot and was a professional stalker for 4/5 years...

I am currently doing my DSC2.... Not saying I know more than my AW .. But it's an odd feeling!

However I think it is going to become essential to hold some leases in the future & that is exactly the reason why I am doing it.. Most AW's are long time stalking buff's so the craic is good, nothing to be feared with DSC2.