Looking for advice on double rifles I have always wanted to own a double rifle driven boar is on my bucket list but I would also like to use it for deer in the UK I'm looking for advice on caliber ? One what is available at most shops or easy to reload and affordable the rifle I want is available in these calibers 8x57 jrs, 7x65r and 30r blaser? Does anyone own one of these calibers or have any advice or knowledge on them many thank.
Double Rifles??
- Thread starter HunterSP
- Start date
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Legally any non self-loading or pump action rifle is just that '1x 7x64mm rifle'. However the variation form asks for 'type' so then you'd put 'double barrel' or 'side by side' or 'over and under'
Are you a reloader? Or factory ammunition? As some old factory metric rimmed calibres are now limited in factory load. But in theory 7x57 still should be velocity legal. And 7x64 definitely so. I'm guessing that 8x57 will tell us about if 8x57 in either 8x57JR or 8x57JRS is.
Note JR is .318" and JRS is .323". Like 7x57R the 8x57JR is now almost a single factory loading.
Note you must match the loading in a side by side to the load it was regulated for. Else it will cross shoot.
But in ALL cases it'll be regulated with that bullet at a set distance. Some like the Baikal can be owner adjusted.
Be aware that scope mountings might be expensive and might preclude much over a 36mm or 42mm lense...and if so you are limited now to very few makers! Be aware! That cheap rifle may COST to put a 'scope on it!
With an over under it will put one barrel group above the other barrel group. But some see that as an advantage as it gives one barrel on aim at say 100 yards and the other on aim, say, at another distance.
Good luck. And AVOID 8x57JR...the .318" one...as it is almost impossible to get components, of factory ammunition in .318" in the UK.
Are you a reloader? Or factory ammunition? As some old factory metric rimmed calibres are now limited in factory load. But in theory 7x57 still should be velocity legal. And 7x64 definitely so. I'm guessing that 8x57 will tell us about if 8x57 in either 8x57JR or 8x57JRS is.
Note JR is .318" and JRS is .323". Like 7x57R the 8x57JR is now almost a single factory loading.
Note you must match the loading in a side by side to the load it was regulated for. Else it will cross shoot.
But in ALL cases it'll be regulated with that bullet at a set distance. Some like the Baikal can be owner adjusted.
Be aware that scope mountings might be expensive and might preclude much over a 36mm or 42mm lense...and if so you are limited now to very few makers! Be aware! That cheap rifle may COST to put a 'scope on it!
With an over under it will put one barrel group above the other barrel group. But some see that as an advantage as it gives one barrel on aim at say 100 yards and the other on aim, say, at another distance.
Good luck. And AVOID 8x57JR...the .318" one...as it is almost impossible to get components, of factory ammunition in .318" in the UK.
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A note on the .318" bullet shortage.
I shoot 9.3x57 and one of the problems I run into is that the bullets are either too lightly constructed, or heavily constructed and not exactly suitable for the cartridge. A solution is ordering a .366 cast bullet sizing die from Lee and running lubed .375" jacketed bullets through it using your loading press. Sounds wild, but it works. If you contact Lee, tell them you want the die for resizing jacketed bullets and they will cut a special throat into the die. They sell a lot of these through their custom shop. I'm guessing a .323" reduction to .318" would be a piece of cake. ~Muir
I shoot 9.3x57 and one of the problems I run into is that the bullets are either too lightly constructed, or heavily constructed and not exactly suitable for the cartridge. A solution is ordering a .366 cast bullet sizing die from Lee and running lubed .375" jacketed bullets through it using your loading press. Sounds wild, but it works. If you contact Lee, tell them you want the die for resizing jacketed bullets and they will cut a special throat into the die. They sell a lot of these through their custom shop. I'm guessing a .323" reduction to .318" would be a piece of cake. ~Muir
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Eh? I just put 'rifle' in the type box. Zero need to put down what action you want. What if you put down 308 bolt action but then see a nice kipplauf or straight pull, put a variation in to change the action type? Naaaah, when you buy it the RFD will put down action type.
For the OP, out of the three you suggested I'd disregard the 30r. It's kind of popular on the continent but brass may be an issue in the future. With the other two there is so many old (and new) doubles chambered in them that brass will be available for years to come.
You'll be able to get factory ammo with ease. Go here; Dealer Locator - RUAG Ammotec UK Ltd , find a convenient RFD that has an account with RUAG and get some ordered.
Norma does 8x57jrs and 7x65r
RWS does all three
Geco (the cheapest) does 8x57jrs and 7x65r
You'll have to wait for it to be delivered but it's no bother in the great scheme of things. Especially since you'll know what to buy as you'll know what your rifle is regulated with.
If you aim to reload then the 7x65r makes more sense as 7mm bullets are easier to get hold of in the UK with a greater variety.
I have spent a good few years learning how to use a bolt action rifle on the UK deer species. They seem to work pretty well, accurate, work well over all UK stalking distances. Forgive my ignorance, but why would you want to use a double rifle on UK deer species? Do you need the second barrel for follow up shots? Are the bolt actions not accurate enough for you?
I can get my head around it for driven boar, but I can't quite understand why a double is a good tool for deer in the UK.
Please enlighten me.
I can get my head around it for driven boar, but I can't quite understand why a double is a good tool for deer in the UK.
Please enlighten me.
I think a lot of it is romanticism and look but handling factors in there as well. Same reason people get falling blocks or kipplaufs. I prefer falling blocks simply for looks. If I was spending a lot of money it'd be a falling block. Bolt actions don't do it for me.
However, bolt actions are the most popular hunting arm for a reason.
However, bolt actions are the most popular hunting arm for a reason.
I would love a nice SxS double in a light calibre. Dreamt of owning and using a Nice Lancaster in 303 but the pockets could not match the dream 
. Some years back I went as far as getting a Chapuis catalogue and sort of drooled over the Progress rifles in 8x57 JRS and 7x65R. The catalogue is old enough that it mentions the VHS video that they offered ........................... note no CD or DVD 
as I said I got it some years ago but then the firm decided to move up north and unemployment bekoned so the idea was shelved. The dream is still there the funds however are not.
I did get to shoot a Chapuis double in 8x57 JRS and it was a beautiful rifle and grouped well. I was well impressed with the rifle and it's performance and very grateful to the chappie at Bisley for letting be give it a whirl. It was after that I got the catalogue. Perhaps it is because I am not one really for following the herd and I like what many consider unusal things but to be stalking Deer with such a rifle would be about perfect. If you do not get it then perhaps it is not for you but for some of us it IS the thing
.
. Some years back I went as far as getting a Chapuis catalogue and sort of drooled over the Progress rifles in 8x57 JRS and 7x65R. The catalogue is old enough that it mentions the VHS video that they offered ........................... note no CD or DVD as I said I got it some years ago but then the firm decided to move up north and unemployment bekoned so the idea was shelved. The dream is still there the funds however are not.I did get to shoot a Chapuis double in 8x57 JRS and it was a beautiful rifle and grouped well. I was well impressed with the rifle and it's performance and very grateful to the chappie at Bisley for letting be give it a whirl. It was after that I got the catalogue. Perhaps it is because I am not one really for following the herd and I like what many consider unusal things but to be stalking Deer with such a rifle would be about perfect. If you do not get it then perhaps it is not for you but for some of us it IS the thing
.The only double rifle I have is a .58 caliber muzzle loader by Pedersoli. It isa wonderfully accurate rifle that's easy to handle and affords a fast second shot. I would love to get a breechloading double gun. I really don't care what chambering as long as it's got a rim on it. To think of it more, I'm pushed towards a 30-40 Krag Jorgensen. That would male a fine rifle.~Muir.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
For the pleasure of it, for self-indulgence, to experience equipment at its acme.
And, maybe for the same reason, last year, I bought myself a Boss. And, oddly enough a Baikal IJ-28. Both, in their own ways, "enjoyable" as both are the "best" of what each of them represent.
To realise a wish that has become attainable. Or just because, in three words "And why not?"
I shoot and I fish because I like it. I don't need to do either. Sometimes I "bag", sometimes I "blank". But at least if I "blank" with company that I enjoy and equipment that I pleases me them I've still had a day that I'll cherish.
If I just want to "butcher" deer I could simply save money and get a plastic and stainless Remington 700 in .243 and stick a moderator and a Leupold 4-12x44, or whatever ridiculous magnification, and a "tactical" reticule, 'scope on it.
Or, for the birds, a bloody Beretta...well designed, absolutely given the heritage of it's design, and 100% reliable, yes, faultless in fact, undoubtedly, but, also with it, mass produced, characterless, bland.
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mchughcb
Well-Known Member
None of the above cartridges where I am are easy to get in factory rounds and if you can they are very expensive. My honest opinion, then a 30-06 with ejectors is the way to go for fast reloading and bullets/projectiles are easy to get. However I also actually use my 9.3x74R double for actually stalking deer - shock horror and its taken deer well past 200m - double shock horror!!
A modern double rifle (read german regulatable with an allen key) should be able to more than hold its own with any bolt gun for stalking or driven hunts well past 200m.
I can understand Enfield's desire to hunt with something a bit out of the ordinary. I hunt with a mate who has a couple of doubles in 9.3x74, they point like good shotgun and feel very "right" in the hands, however he often has problems with the regulation of them. I won't have a plastic and stainless rifle anywhere near my safe, because part of owning a rifle/s is the look and feel of a well crafted firearm. It all goes into the mix. All my hunting rifles are bolt action rifles and all are either Mauser type or at the very least controlled round feed. Pride of place goes to a CZ550 full stock in 9.3x62. Sometimes the dream outstrips the wallet however. In my case it would be a Rigby.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
My experience with the 7x65r.
1) ammo is available in the uk, but it's expensive and RUAG only import it in limited quantities. If you want a particular loading then they will bring it in but you need to be talking 1,000 round type quantity. - I've asked.
2) it is however easy to reload, and brass is available from Frankonia.de. 7mm bullets are available, but mostly at the 140gn size. The 165/ 173 gn seem more difficult to find.
3) I regularly use a double, albeit witha shot barrel on top, and it is a very nice way to go hunting. Much less faff than a bolt especially when go around farmland with all the usual ditches, fences, dykes etc. And when meeting the public it looks much less threatening.
4) a double is not a tinkerers rifle, there is not a lot you can change or adapt. Most double have a scope mounted in quick detach mounts, most are regulated for one bullet weight or type of ammo.
5) Most double will not shoot tiny little groups, but most will put both barrels through a clay pigeon size target.
6) With a rimmed cartridge they reload fast even without ejectors. Just tip up the barrels and cartridges fall out. Yes a bolt can probably get three or four shots away slightly quicker, but then you need to reload the magazine.
7) you will need to grow a thick skin - the plastic, bipoded moderator, 2-100 power infrared zoom brigade will suck their teeth.
1) ammo is available in the uk, but it's expensive and RUAG only import it in limited quantities. If you want a particular loading then they will bring it in but you need to be talking 1,000 round type quantity. - I've asked.
2) it is however easy to reload, and brass is available from Frankonia.de. 7mm bullets are available, but mostly at the 140gn size. The 165/ 173 gn seem more difficult to find.
3) I regularly use a double, albeit witha shot barrel on top, and it is a very nice way to go hunting. Much less faff than a bolt especially when go around farmland with all the usual ditches, fences, dykes etc. And when meeting the public it looks much less threatening.
4) a double is not a tinkerers rifle, there is not a lot you can change or adapt. Most double have a scope mounted in quick detach mounts, most are regulated for one bullet weight or type of ammo.
5) Most double will not shoot tiny little groups, but most will put both barrels through a clay pigeon size target.
6) With a rimmed cartridge they reload fast even without ejectors. Just tip up the barrels and cartridges fall out. Yes a bolt can probably get three or four shots away slightly quicker, but then you need to reload the magazine.
7) you will need to grow a thick skin - the plastic, bipoded moderator, 2-100 power infrared zoom brigade will suck their teeth.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
the reason being cost. When bolt actions first came out you could get an unbelievably accurate rifle for little money. Even today for £500 you can get a very adequate and accurate bolt action and £2 or 3000 gets you top of the range. That's starting terratory for most double rifles.
It's mildly annoying that, considering the age gap, we have the same point of view
What are your bucket list hunts?
Cost is a huge factor but it's not the only factor I don't think. Ease of moderation is a big one here and moderating a double rifle ain't gonna happen. You can with a kipplauf or falling block but then you don't have that rapid follow up shot everyone seems to want.
Runours abound that double rifles aren't accurate past 50 yards, maybe 100 tops, and that due to them being regulated the barrels will cross after that distance. We may know that's ******** but it doesn't stop the uneducated from spreading it, unfortunately that includes many RFD's.
Then we have flanged cartridges, by far and away the best choice for any double rifle (and most single shots), that live in the shadow of rimless designs. Flanged cartridges will always be harder to get brass or factory ammo for and for some that's an inconvenience they don't want.
For me the quote "Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun" very much applies.
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