Ethics of Digital

[Heym SR20]

I guess you don’t stalk dense woodland.

I do stalk quite dense woodland, also thick braken, crops etc as well as open ground and have done so for many years. You learn to read the sign, tracks etc and where the deer are likely to be. Move slowly and wait for them to come out.

I also use a dog that can smell the deer long before you can see them. Thermals can only see straight lines, they are unable to pick up a deer hidden in deep cover behind the trees or around a corner.

I have also learnt from experience the futility of shooting deer in dense cover - the shooting is the easy part, getting them out of an old mature deciduous woodland with plenty of deadfall is a nightmare. Much better to sit and wait for them to pop out into the open.

 

[paul o']

Tell him if you were to shoot on his estate! he would not be getting a tip other than you do it with what you like and ill just crack on with what I have. Who's to say that on your ground with your option setup the fact that you don't need to go home at dark o'clock as many do ! but you can stay in the seat and remove a few fox's to help the estate out.?
Its the 21st century hunter one gun one scope with a 24hr option to rid the estate of unwanted animals and pests.
Back when it was big rally car lamp and a motor bike battery or bigger looking like Luke sky walker in the night and every bugger could see you for miles

 

[John Gryphon]

I guess you don’t stalk dense woodland.

I do stalk quite dense woodland, also thick bracken, crops etc as well as open ground and have done so for many years. You learn to read the sign, tracks etc and where the deer are likely to be. Move slowly and wait for them to come out.

I also use a dog that can smell the deer long before you can see them. Thermals can only see straight lines, they are unable to pick up a deer hidden in deep cover behind the trees or around a corner.

I have also learnt from experience the futility of shooting deer in dense cover - the shooting is the easy part, getting them out of an old mature deciduous woodland with plenty of deadfall is a nightmare. Much better to sit and wait for them to pop out into the open.

Best post for March 2024 @Heym SR20

As my old man used to say " half of the ****s getting about today couldn't find their way home if the street lights weren't on "
There is such a reliance on modern equipment and aids that if all fail it then renders most of the 'hunters' that have only ever used them as useless when it comes down to going bush and stalking up to a deer.
You learn bugger all about actual hunting by arriving at a paddock and walking up to a white blob with wind in face if that is all that you have ever done since the granting of your gun licence.
There is a real deal in finding deer sign that you interpret as fresh enough and then commence your journey in pursuit following that sign to either the win or the lose situation.
We here know that a large percentage of the modern sambar "hunters" of today displaying their "trophy" in photos taken in the flashlight wouldn't have a hope in hell of ever getting a trophy in the daylight being unaided by the modern addition of a thermal scope.

There is deer stalking/hunting and then there is the other method.

Btw the new chum wont get up to bedded deer in heavy bush (in daylight) without having done an apprenticeship in hunting when he/she has only ever used an optical aid.
Much the same with the proliferation of GPS devices, the reliance is such that the 'hunter' doesn't take note of landmarks on the journey that when the battery fails they then have no way of knowing where the **** to go.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmmm.
Just to take the opposite position for a moment so bear with…
The consensus is there are too many deer so it would perhaps be reasonable to assume that not enough are falling to RTAs or being shot. If that is a given and cognisant that increasing RTAs is a non-starter and relatively inexpensive technology means one can now clearly identify deer 24/7 and obtain a sufficiently clear picture to take a safe and humane shot, then why retain the one hour before and one hour after rule at all (pause for collective SD gasps)?
I presume this rather strange rule goes back many years and poaching was in the thoughts of those select few who framed it…..
Just curious…

 

[Pete6.5]

Hmmm.
Just to take the opposite position for a moment so bear with…
The consensus is there are too many deer so it would perhaps be reasonable to assume that not enough are falling to RTAs or being shot. If that is a given and cognisant that increasing RTAs is a non-starter and relatively inexpensive technology means one can now clearly identify deer 24/7 and obtain a sufficiently clear picture to take a safe and humane shot, then why retain the one hour before and one hour after rule at all (pause for collective SD gasps)?
I presume this rather strange rule goes back many years and poaching was in the thoughts of those select few who framed it…..
Just curious…

Most the rules date back to a time when generally deer numbers were struggling to bounce back from very low numbers so the rules achieved their goal of increasing the numbers.

 

[xavierdoc]

Aside from the ethical debate (I don't see a problem), can I just say that it's inspirational to know you're still Stalking at 85yrs old.

I can only hope I am at that age!

 

[BenBhoy]

 

[Merlyn]

Did he show you his collection of spears ( Bow and arrow too advanced)

No, but I hear it is extensive.

 

[Merlyn]

Last night I could have done with a digital scope. If the deer hadn’t have stepped in front of pale coloured grass I would have had to leave it despite being 20 minutes short of last legal shooting. So long as the proper hours are observed I can see no issue ….. other than looking like a poacher

Nah, when I am poaching I use snares and a bow and arrow.

 

[Merlyn]

Aside from the ethical debate (I don't see a problem), can I just say that it's inspirational to know you're still Stalking at 85yrs old.

I can only hope I am at that age!

You need a lot of luck, (Cancer and Alzheimers are a lottery) bloody determination and a great love of the countryside. I also had to learn to shoot cack (left) handed when I lost half the sight of my right eye. I wont give in until I really have to. Reveille today was 0330 and I blanked!

 

[Merlyn]

Tell him if you were to shoot on his estate! he would not be getting a tip other than you do it with what you like and ill just crack on with what I have. Who's to say that on your ground with your option setup the fact that you don't need to go home at dark o'clock as many do ! but you can stay in the seat and remove a few fox's to help the estate out.?
Its the 21st century hunter one gun one scope with a 24hr option to rid the estate of unwanted animals and pests.
Back when it was big rally car lamp and a motor bike battery or bigger looking like Luke sky walker in the night and every bugger could see you for miles

Been there and done that too.

 

[StephenToast]

I shoot a lightweight Tikka .243 mounted by a Pard DS35 - 70 digital day/night scope for deer. The reason for this choice of equipment is that I am nigh on 85 and don't want to have to give up stalking until I absolutely have to. Weight is paramount. All my gear is as light as I can possibly make it and I do more highseat work than anything else. However, I still enjoy the thrill of the stalk as long as the drag wont be too far!

Although I have been stalking for many years I had never done any formal training so just recently I did a DSC1 course - No reason except I wanted to. It was excellent value and I learnt a hell of a lot. Now thinking about the DSC2.

After the shooting assessment, which I passed, the assessor, who was not our course instructor, commented that on 'his' estate I would not be allowed to shoot deer with my digital scope. When I asked why ever not he said that it was not ethical and didn't show respect.

I wanted to get off home, a three hour drive, as the weather was dire and I was soaking wet, as was the assessor, and he had many more candidates to deal with so I did not pursue the matter.

Now I thought that the idea was that we should be shooting more deer at the moment - Not worrying about the 'ethics' of the modern legal equipment that is now on offer.

A scope allows one to see the target and take an ethical shot to ensure the rapid death of the quarry. Whether it uses relatively heavy glass lenses and mechanical levers and widgets or a small microchip and a screen does not seem to matter to me.

Your comments please.

He's clearly a tosser. You keep dping what you're doing and enjoy yourself.

 

[Automan]

No ethics things move on you can learn from the past but it's gone look to the future.

 

[rookstorm]

Personally I don’t want to use a thermal imaging device whilst out stalking. It’s not the device per se, it’s the intrusion of yet more electronics in my life. I can see deer with the naked eye. I am blessed with good eyesight and ability to see wildlife. I get huge pleasure from this.

I don’t want to walk around the countryside staring a little electronic rendition of the wild places.

Thermals are a useful tool in the armoury for some people.

Ethics are in the hands of the individuals who use the tools.

Ive killed a ton of deer you would have never seen with your binos never mind yer eyes

 

[John Gryphon]

Ive killed a ton of deer you would have never seen with your binos never mind yer eyes

There`s a lot of blokes that have done the same...without thermals.
I remember Alan that owned the fish n hunt forum in NZ saying that he had shot 30,000 deer....that was before thermals were invented!

 

[NullMac]

The guy's a fanny

Nail on the head.

There are other assessors available.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Something else occurs - much is made of the light gathering qualities/advantages of top-end i.e. very expensive traditional scopes - how do they compare especially at dusk with the new electronic scopes which cost about a quarter or less of said scopes?
I know that even my old Pards 007 and 008 have very good light-gathering qualities at dusk….
Just curious…

 

[nun_hunter]

Thermal is great for spotting deer you wouldn't otherwise see without it but being in a position to shoot the deer is often impossible.

Digital is simply no different of an evolution of optical lens coverings to improve low light performance. It's possible to shoot up to the absolute last minute of legal light with a good optical scope and a full moon, digital just means it's possible to do the same the other days of the month too.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Thermal is great for spotting deer you wouldn't otherwise see without it but being in a position to shoot the deer is often impossible.

Digital is simply no different of an evolution of optical lens coverings to improve low light performance. It's possible to shoot up to the absolute last minute of legal light with a good optical scope and a full moon, digital just means it's possible to do the same the other days of the month too.

Hmmm.
So they are equal one day a month but the other 27/29 or 30 days digital is better?

 

[nun_hunter]

Hmmm.
So they are equal one day a month but the other 27/29 or 30 days digital is better?

It's up to each individual to decide if that makes digital "better" because it depends why you're shooting deer and what you deem as better.