Ethics of Digital

[sikamalc]

Perhaps add "sir" to your handle Sir Ratel
you would be the only Sir on site mate lol. TOFF!

I wouldnt count on that!

 

[Merlyn]

Simply a daft comment by a relic, ignore him. What you are doing makes perfect sense and if anything ensures a more ethical shot, if you are otherwise struggling with your vision.

I don't struggle with my vision. I have lost about half the sight in my right eye, which used to be my master eye, so I now shoot left handed using my left eye which is perfect. It took some getting used to but no problem now. I have to do a special eye test every three years for driving but it has never been a problem.

 

[JH83]

Last night I could have done with a digital scope. If the deer hadn’t have stepped in front of pale coloured grass I would have had to leave it despite being 20 minutes short of last legal shooting. So long as the proper hours are observed I can see no issue ….. other than looking like a poacher

Come to the dark (or light) side

 

[JH83]

I use both thermal spotter and a digital scope-and I was on board early with the latter.

Do they make it easier to achieve a cull? Absolutely. I would never apologise for that. It certainly doesn’t make it easy, once spotted the deer don’t stalk themselves, if the digital allows a shot much later into the evening you still need to be sat in the right place.

Personally in the last month I’m trying to achieve culls on a few estates whilst balancing work and a young family. Efficiency is key. If some folks are purists and go without modern tech, with an old school rig then I’m genuinely pleased for them and jealous of their spare time, but I intend to keep my permissions and ideally not get divorced.

 

[baguio]

Has the assessor's estate said that Day/night scopes are banned or is the assessor of the opinion that the estate would ban their use. The two are very different things. I wonder if the assessor uses a thermal spotter and quad sticks?

 

[baguio]

I do stalk quite dense woodland, also thick braken, crops etc as well as open ground and have done so for many years. You learn to read the sign, tracks etc and where the deer are likely to be. Move slowly and wait for them to come out.

I also use a dog that can smell the deer long before you can see them. Thermals can only see straight lines, they are unable to pick up a deer hidden in deep cover behind the trees or around a corner.

I have also learnt from experience the futility of shooting deer in dense cover - the shooting is the easy part, getting them out of an old mature deciduous woodland with plenty of deadfall is a nightmare. Much better to sit and wait for them to pop out into the open.

You don't shoot muntjac in your woods though. I regularly spend several minutes trying to spot the muntjac through my binos that I can easily 'see' in my thermal spotter sitting in cover. I have therefore narrowed down where it's sitting to a few feet. There's not a man alive that could shoot as many muntjac as I do without using a thermal spotter. They can take as many dogs as they want. Our figures on one nature reserve went up by 900% on back to back seasons when the team went thermal. None of the team are mugs either.

 

[nun_hunter]

You don't shoot muntjac in your woods though. I regularly spend several minutes trying to spot the muntjac through my binos that I can easily 'see' in my thermal spotter sitting in cover. I have therefore narrowed down where it's sitting to a few feet. There's not a man alive that could shoot as many muntjac as I do without using a thermal spotter. They can take as many dogs as they want. Our figures on one nature reserve went up by 900% on back to back seasons when the team went thermal. None of the team are mugs either.

I e found the same with even fallow in the woods I stalk. Woodland that was coppiced many years ago and just left so cover is really thick. Sometimes all you can see in the thermal is a patch or two of heat no bigger than a bird but you know it's a deer. No matter how hard you look with the binos you still can't see where it is. Squirrels are even more frustrating. Yes you can spot loads more but actually finding them and identifying a safe shot is still difficult.

 

[Merlyn]

Has the assessor's estate said that Day/night scopes are banned or is the assessor of the opinion that the estate would ban their use. The two are very different things. I wonder if the assessor uses a thermal spotter and quad sticks?

He said that one person had turned up with digital and was not allowed to shoot but used the estate rifle. This was a one minute chat in the pouring rain on a DSC1 assessment day. I can't, because I don't know, the estate or any other details. I do not buy stalking anywhere, luckily, but was just curious.

 

[baguio]

He said that one person had turned up with digital and was not allowed to shoot but used the estate rifle. This was a one minute chat in the pouring rain on a DSC1 assessment day. I can't, because I don't know, the estate or any other details. I do not buy stalking anywhere, luckily, but was just curious.

If he was telling the truth (and that's certainly not guarranteed), then I think my opinion of him mirrors that of many others on here.

 

[NickJ]

I shoot a lightweight Tikka .243 mounted by a Pard DS35 - 70 digital day/night scope for deer. The reason for this choice of equipment is that I am nigh on 85 and don't want to have to give up stalking until I absolutely have to. Weight is paramount. All my gear is as light as I can possibly make it and I do more highseat work than anything else. However, I still enjoy the thrill of the stalk as long as the drag wont be too far!

Although I have been stalking for many years I had never done any formal training so just recently I did a DSC1 course - No reason except I wanted to. It was excellent value and I learnt a hell of a lot. Now thinking about the DSC2.

After the shooting assessment, which I passed, the assessor, who was not our course instructor, commented that on 'his' estate I would not be allowed to shoot deer with my digital scope. When I asked why ever not he said that it was not ethical and didn't show respect.

I wanted to get off home, a three hour drive, as the weather was dire and I was soaking wet, as was the assessor, and he had many more candidates to deal with so I did not pursue the matter.

Now I thought that the idea was that we should be shooting more deer at the moment - Not worrying about the 'ethics' of the modern legal equipment that is now on offer.

A scope allows one to see the target and take an ethical shot to ensure the rapid death of the quarry. Whether it uses relatively heavy glass lenses and mechanical levers and widgets or a small microchip and a screen does not seem to matter to me.

Your comments please.

Ethics are, of course personal and subjective.

They also change over time, I recall my Grandfather removing his rifle from a slip with a bipod on it circa 1980. The old hill stalker pulled a face and mumbled something about it not being sporting. I hate to think how many deer were wounded by people waving around all over the place shooting off their elbows.

In a number of areas of the UK we need to reduce numbers and it's ethical to use aids that help achieve that: NV, Thermal, drones...

Personally I think the only issue with ethics and Thermal/NV scopes is where shots are taken at dusk, within legal light but so dark that if a cock up occurs it's hard to deal with it quickly and effectively in the blackness. If you are needing to do this it makes having the other tools to hand more important (dog, thermal, powerful torch..)

 

[rookstorm]

Thermal is great for spotting deer you wouldn't otherwise see without it but being in a position to shoot the deer is often impossible.

Digital is simply no different of an evolution of optical lens coverings to improve low light performance. It's possible to shoot up to the absolute last minute of legal light with a good optical scope and a full moon, digital just means it's possible to do the same the other days of the month too.

Pulsar digex c50 with no moon will destroy any glass scope in the lowest light

 

[rookstorm]

Digital beats glass.
I used to shoot with a fella that had one of the big S&B scopes and we compared side by side plenty of times and my C50 killed it.
If you need to shoot right up to last knockings digital is king, not only that, in woodland with heavy canopy, glass has gone way before last legal light, decent digital keeps going.

My digex c50 will beat any glass scope as you say

 

[RoryB]

Just to say, I applaud you for getting out there and contributing to controlling our ever increasing population of deer. Finding your way around challenges, such as weighty kit, is also to be applauded, do what you do, keep it safe, legal and humane and that will do!

 

[nf-fuse]

Just want to say well done for stalking at 85 and still trying to learn new stuff.