Expansion testing - Frontline Rejects channel

User00033

Well-Known Member
Many of you will have gathered that I like bullet expansion and terminal ballistics, and the relative differences between different types of bullet. And that I’ve got some pretty clear views on what works and what doesn’t for the kind of deer hunting that we do here.

My mate came across this channel, there’s been a few new bullet tests added since so it’s quite current, and I would expect quite a lot of new content over the coming months. What was interesting to us was these guys have tested the expansion of different types of bullets using the exact same methodology each time, so the relativity is good. I was pleased to see they have tested some of my favourite bullets, as well as the common Barnes bullets that I have been shooting recently along with a couple of mates.

The photos and graphs are informative and well worth checking out.

One main issue though. The choice of water as a capture medium is always debatable. In my experience, using water generates a uniformity of expansion that is unlikely to be repeatable in animals. We can argue about this until the cows come home, same with ballistic gel. But at the end of the day you’ve got to use something practical, and if you are doing it the same each time, then the relative comparison of one bullet to the other is acceptable to my mind.

There is a pattern in these tests that correlates very well with our field experiences, particularly with the Barnes bullets versus the cup & core copper / lead bullets such as ELD-X. Past a certain range, which varies according to the power of the cartridge and the calibre of the bullet, we’ve seen some very ordinary wounding and very long runners with Barnes TSX and LRX on red deer. This has led us to impose a 2,400fps minimum impact velocity for clean killing. This isn’t of much interest to those of you that only use these bullets at short range, but for us it is a critical performance factor. The photos of the Barnes bullets at extended ranges in these tests make perfect sense when I consider the narrow and ineffective wound channels on deer that ran on a long, long way.

There’s a couple of truly outstanding performers in these tests. The 180gr Norma Oryx in .300 Win Mag achieved an average expansion of 3x calibre at 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 yards. That’s bloody awesome, and has challenged some of the historic assumptions I have made about bonded bullets which may be at least partially incorrect. The ELD-X did extremely well as I would expect as a user of that bullet on big deer at extended ranges, though I don’t think the guys necessarily understood what they were seeing (and measuring) with the closer range impacts (the shedding of petals, hence an apparant “narrower” expansion).

Anyway, for bullet nerds this may be of interest and is a nice way to spend an hour or two. (I admit I do not watch all the shooting and just scroll forward to the results.)

Frontline Rejects Channel



 
Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. The use of water at least confers uniformity to the test media though nothing will be the same as live animals . Having skim watched a few select episodes I was surprised how poorly the 165g ballistic tip performed with the core being shed even at 500m.
 
I was surprised how poorly the 165g ballistic tip performed with the core being shed even at 500m
Nothing wrong with that. They are extremely effective, fast killers, the Nosler BT. I like the design primarily for the thick copper base which helps bush the core through. I often find the core pops out of the Hornady ELD-X and Speer BTSP. These three bullets are my Top 3 for the kind of medium range shooting I do here.
 
Very interesting. I use Barnes 130gr ttsx and early days yet, 16 deer, only one has run and that only made it 25 metres, the rest have pretty much been bang flop, ranges up to 170m max. Not recovered a bullet, and no pencilling, nice to see in the video what they would look like!
 
Very interesting. I use Barnes 130gr ttsx and early days yet, 16 deer, only one has run and that only made it 25 metres, the rest have pretty much been bang flop, ranges up to 170m max. Not recovered a bullet, and no pencilling, nice to see in the video what they would look like!
Could i ask what speed your running at please?
Jimmy
 
Very interesting. I use Barnes 130gr ttsx and early days yet, 16 deer, only one has run and that only made it 25 metres, the rest have pretty much been bang flop, ranges up to 170m max. Not recovered a bullet, and no pencilling, nice to see in the video what they would look like!
Very interesting. I’ve been using the 130gr .308 TTSX for about 2 years now and I would say that I see the exact reverse. My traditional bang flop from Nosler BT now replaced with lengthy runners except up on Arran where the preferred strike site on reds is through both shoulders so the animals drop. This shot below from 2 weeks ago is typical. Shot at 120m (Swaro dS) on a ~3yr roe doe. The animal ran 70m uphill with the bullet severing the heart in 2, passed through both lungs and left a 2” hole at the exit. From the exit, I’m sure bullet expansion has occurred- impact speed approx 2500 FPS.

Thanks for posting the link - you have sorted out my Christmas viewing when I “hide” from the family………

ED8CB97F-36C6-4487-936B-D05781CE4D9A.webp
 
Could i ask what speed your running at please?
Jimmy
I do not have a chrony, but I am 30-06, using viht n140 and 53 grains. Max load is 53.6 on viht website, which estimates it at 3071fps. So I am definitely under 3000fps. I worked it up slowly from minimum load and it grouped beautifully at 53, so stuck there.

30-06 is a new calibre for me, I have been using .308 for years With 150 grain sierra pro hunters. So far 30-06 surpasses that load in .308 for bang flop. I will load the .308 with these 130 grain ttsx, be interested to see how effective they are.
 
Very interesting. I’ve been using the 130gr .308 TTSX for about 2 years now and I would say that I see the exact reverse. My traditional bang flop from Nosler BT now replaced with lengthy runners except up on Arran where the preferred strike site on reds is through both shoulders so the animals drop. This shot below from 2 weeks ago is typical. Shot at 120m (Swaro dS) on a ~3yr roe doe. The animal ran 70m uphill with the bullet severing the heart in 2, passed through both lungs and left a 2” hole at the exit. From the exit, I’m sure bullet expansion has occurred- impact speed approx 2500 FPS.

Thanks for posting the link - you have sorted out my Christmas viewing when I “hide” from the family………

View attachment 235163
As I said- only been using them for a short time and only 13 fallow and 3 red shot. 120m for your roe would not fall in to the realms, as per the video, at a range where it would not expand effectively. What sort of velocity are you getting?
 
As I said- only been using them for a short time and only 13 fallow and 3 red shot. 120m for your roe would not fall in to the realms, as per the video, at a range where it would not expand effectively. What sort of velocity are you getting?
2915 fps at the muzzle using up my IMR4895. When I speed checked the equivalent VOR-TX it was 2950 fps.
 
I do not have a chrony, but I am 30-06, using viht n140 and 53 grains. Max load is 53.6 on viht website, which estimates it at 3071fps. So I am definitely under 3000fps. I worked it up slowly from minimum load and it grouped beautifully at 53, so stuck there.

30-06 is a new calibre for me, I have been using .308 for years With 150 grain sierra pro hunters. So far 30-06 surpasses that load in .308 for bang flop. I will load the .308 with these 130 grain ttsx, be interested to see how effective they are.
Thanks for the reply, its very interesting, as ive been saying on here im due a 30-06 for monolithic shooting in January all being well so im trying to gleen as much information as possible, I had hoped to use N140 as A, its what i use in my other rifle and B, i only live 10 mins away from Hannams reloading so no big drive to get powder or haz mat costs.
Cheers Jimmy
 
Thanks for the reply, its very interesting, as ive been saying on here im due a 30-06 for monolithic shooting in January all being well so im trying to gleen as much information as possible, I had hoped to use N140 as A, its what i use in my other rifle and B, i only live 10 mins away from Hannams reloading so no big drive to get powder or haz mat costs.
Cheers Jimmy
Only reason I went n140 is because I use it in my other calibre. I do not target shoot, only zero occasionally, so 1kg of powder lasts years!

I sincerely hope I see the results continue, so far so good.
 
Then why comment 🥱

I had no idea they were using ttsx in 1921, every day is indeed a school day 🤓
… in order to prevent that newbies get caught up in this nonsense.
I appreciate your interest in the subject, but apart from some special (real) long range applications, this whole topic is practically irrelevant. Any halfway decent bullet will kill a deer at 200 yards and beyond. They have done so 100 year ago and they still do, even a (T)TSX.
 
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… in order to prevent that newbies get caught up in this nonsense.
I appreciate your interest in the subject, but apart from some special (real) long range applications, this whole topic is practically irrelevant. Any halfway decent bullet will kill a deer at 200 yards and beyond. They have done so 100 year ago and they still do, even a (T)TSX.
:rofl:

Aufmerksamkeit! Erweiterungsdiskussion ist verboten!
 
… in order to prevent that newbies get caught up in this nonsense.
I appreciate your interest in the subject, but apart from some special (real) long range applications, this whole topic is practically irrelevant. Any halfway decent bullet will kill a deer at 200 yards and beyond. They have done so 100 year ago and they still do, even a (T)TSX
… in order to prevent that newbies get caught up in this nonsense.
I appreciate your interest in the subject, but apart from some special (real) long range applications, this whole topic is practically irrelevant. Any halfway decent bullet will kill a deer at 200 yards and beyond. They have done so 100 year ago and they still do, even a (T)TSX.
Again why even comment or look at the thread if it’s nonsense?

Non expanding ammunition will kill if it’s put in the right place but we don’t use it. We use expanding ammunition to add some margin of error but also to increase the wound channel resulting in a quicker death.

So I was quite interested in seeing the expansion over different ranges. All will kill if hit in the right place, but how quick they bleed out is surely related to how big that wound channel. The knockdown ability increases the more it expands rather than pencils through.
 
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If something doesnt float yer boat or interest you is it REALLY that difficult to hit back button and find a thread that does ?!🤨
Life must be soooo interesting that folk comment bollocks on a thread that apparently doesn’t interest them …..
Hey ho ….
 
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