Fac air is it worth it ?

[Bo Diddley]

I have 22lr as well CZ 457 that thing is so accurate even at 100+ yards , but what I’m saying is , FAC air is so more versatile which it is . I can shoot 13.4 , 14.3 , 16, 18 ,21 gr pellets . 20, 21, 22 & 23 gr slugs from my crown.22 all at different speeds from 750 -955 fps . My longest shot with .22 FAC using 22 gr slug 189 yard , witnessed

Yes, it would still be a pretty cool thing to do though... whoever wanted to pitch up to witness events could bring sausage rolls and mince pies, it's a shame you two guys live so far apart, my money would be on the Fac air

 

[Bowland blades]

What's the point in a 15 ft lb FAC air ? What can a 15 ft lb gun do that a 12 ft lb can't?

I'm sure that a super smooth tuned fac springer will shoot as well as a tuned sub 12 springer. But that still doesn't tackle the limitations I mentioned. Ultimate accuracy at range, shooting off sticks/bipod, hold sensitivity, quick reload etc.

In the eyes of most- 35ft lbs of FAC air can safely shoot a 50 yard squirrel in a tree with no backstop- and a few hundred metres of backdrop. Doing this with a 22LR would be madness.

Totally agree re the other disadvantages of FAC air- largely cost and complexity. To some- its worth it.

the right ammo for the 22lr can certainly handle shooting into the trees ( cci quiets ) 40 grain bullet with much reduced velocity / fall out range very limited ! Certainly wouldn't travel a few hundred meters its got about 30 ft lb with that 40 grain ! There are many , many different 22 LR rounds and power levels and an FAC airgun can be pretty much as powerful as 22LR at the other side of things .
My Favourite power airgun is no greater than 20 ftlb and all that really does is add a flatter trajectory over 50 yards and enough to make a clean kill within that range ( because a 12 ftlb )slightly off on angle of presentation or a slightly incorrect placement at 12 ft lb can struggle to do the job .
Indeed i tend to shoot HV 40 grain .22 lr ammo as i can far more easily shoot to 80-100 yards adding to that some if conditions are all good , i can then change my mag and walk into a barn and nock off some ferals or rats . The rifle need not be above £300 indeed the ones we keep are second hand CZ 452 models ( £150 each i paid) . in the last 20 years I have had one fault with a worn out extractor - i fixed it super fast though . Now then Airguns ? its seems to me PCP airguns sit in the safe thinking of what new fault to hit you with next time you need them most LOL! They also cost a heck of a lot more than an LR and are a swine to fault find and get parts for . Ammo? every RFD has .22LR

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

the right ammo for the 22lr can certainly handle shooting into the trees ( cci quiets ) 40 grain bullet with much reduced velocity / fall out range very limited ! Certainly wouldn't travel a few hundred meters its got about 30 ft lb with that 40 grain ! There are many , many different 22 LR rounds and power levels and an FAC airgun can be pretty much as powerful as 22LR at the other side of things .
My Favourite power airgun is no greater than 20 ftlb and all that really does is add a flatter trajectory over 50 yards and enough to make a clean kill within that range ( because a 12 ftlb )slightly off on angle of presentation or a slightly incorrect placement at 12 ft lb can struggle to do the job .
Indeed i tend to shoot HV 40 grain .22 lr ammo as i can far more easily shoot to 80-100 yards adding to that some if conditions are all good , i can then change my mag and walk into a barn and nock off some ferals or rats . The rifle need not be above £300 indeed the ones we keep are second hand CZ 452 models ( £150 each i paid) . in the last 20 years I have had one fault with a worn out extractor - i fixed it super fast though . Now then Airguns ? its seems to me PCP airguns sit in the safe thinking of what new fault to hit you with next time you need them most LOL! They also cost a heck of a lot more than an LR and are a swine to fault find and get parts for . Ammo? every RFD has .22LR

Hmmmm v interesting. Perhaps I should research 22LR ammo better.

I don't think I would point even a 30 ft lb 22lr skyward in a tree. At 30 ft lb- the 40gr bullet has the same trajectory as a sub 12 .22. But you're putting 2.5x the amount of lead in the air- with a BC far better than an air pellet. The fall out zone would need to be bigger than air. I would think it would travel more than a few 100m if you shot at 45 degrees however.

Totally agree that sub 12 is not forgiving of pellet placement. 22lr would be more so.

I think we can agree that ammo avaliability is excellent for both- perhaps with a slight leaning towards air.

Slugs add another component to FAC air too.

 

[Overlay]

reading the thread - what would be the best well built, faultless FAC PCP air rifle to shoot a max of 100 yds
I use a Daystate wolverine 12ft pounds and its pin point accurate and has had not one problem ie faultless would fac one have the same qualities

 

[Dickturpin]

Wouldn't be without fac air!!!

 

[Klenchblaize]

What I would say about the 22LR/Air accuracy potential and differential debate (at 50m) is the former continues to be compromised by the quality/consistency of sub-sonic hunting ammo.

To replicate the following 5-shot FAC air ragged hole group with my rimfire I’d need to use a target ammo such as Eley10X to do it with any repeatability:

No doubt some will disagree and I too might have until yesterday when I finally found time to shoot the FAC rated PCP I purchased from a SD member.

K

 

[Arbshot]

reading the thread - what would be the best well built, faultless FAC PCP air rifle to shoot a max of 100 yds
I use a Daystate wolverine 12ft pounds and its pin point accurate and has had not one problem ie faultless would fac one have the same qualities

Yes, get the fac version you won’t be disappointed

 

[LeftHandGuy]

It wouldn't quite work how you're thinking in this country.. it's either a sub-12ft-lb air rifle or it's Fac and is specifically down on your ticket as such with serial numbers etc, so even if you have let's say .22 Fac on your ticket and own let's say an FX Crown in .22 Fac.... and you also own another FX Crown in .22 sub-12-ft-lb and you're sub 12 air rifle was tested and found to be over the limit you would still be in trouble.

Nope! It works exactly how I think (I think), I simply failed to write in a clear enough manner. I meant that, once an air rifle has been registered as an S1 firearm and identified on your FAC, you are protected from the risk of breaking the law WRT the ME produced by that rifle.

As a Brit now resident in the US I really would like a decent British built air rifle at some point, it's seemingly the last "consumer" level product of the once mighty British gun trade. However the cost is disproportionately high, and I am not sure they are legal for small game hunting in my home state...

 

[Dalua]

I've read this thread with interest, and am going to ask for an FAC-air slot. I thought .22 at 30ftlb looked a sensible choice, and as a long-term-happy sub-12ftlb HW100-user, I was thinking of getting an FAC HW100 also.
What would be the reasons for not getting an HW100, and which alternative should I go for?

 

[old keeper]

I've had Air Arms, Daystate, and Logun FACs among others but the best by far has been my FX Crown. A really brilliant and highly accurate rifle.

 

[Bo Diddley]

I've read this thread with interest, and am going to ask for an FAC-air slot. I thought .22 at 30ftlb looked a sensible choice, and as a long-term-happy sub-12ftlb HW100-user, I was thinking of getting an FAC HW100 also.
What would be the reasons for not getting an HW100, and which alternative should I go for?

Like @old keeper, I'm happy with an FX Crown, although if AirArms had offered the S510 in a bottle version with a decent shot count I would have had that.

 

[Slurpy Sam]

I've read this thread with interest, and am going to ask for an FAC-air slot. I thought .22 at 30ftlb looked a sensible choice, and as a long-term-happy sub-12ftlb HW100-user, I was thinking of getting an FAC HW100 also.
What would be the reasons for not getting an HW100, and which alternative should I go for?

Hw100 in sub 12 is absolute weapon, super accurate, quiet and about 70 shots, in FAC variant that shot count is about 25-30 ish on a good day. The likes of the FX range will do 90 shots in 45 to 50 ftlb range.

 

[3.5mag]

My R10 fac sits around 29/30ftlb.
Yes, I've changed the notorious BSA regulator for a Huma (though,to be fair the Beeza reg gave me no trouble).
Accuracy is excellent & I've taken quarry out to 80yds cleanly.
Surprisingly the 16 grain are more accurate than the 18gr JSB's [
This was a full mag of 10 @ 45yds.
I guess this is a long winded way of saying Yes, get one. It has it's uses as does my HW77 sub 12 .177 & my .22 rimmies.

 

[3.5mag]

P.S. this cost me under £500 s/h with scope & mod., though it now wears a Pard 008 mk1

 

[Dalua]

Hw100 in sub 12 is absolute weapon, super accurate, quiet and about 70 shots, in FAC variant that shot count is about 25-30 ish on a good day. The likes of the FX range will do 90 shots in 45 to 50 ftlb range.

Ah - got it! If shot-count is the only problem I've nothing to worry about, as 25-30 would be a spectacular evening's rabbiting. Also, I have a couple of spare HW100 cylinders...

 

[Overlay]

do you need a different size of bottle or can you use the same one as for 12 foot pound or do you need a portable air compressor to refill

 

[Bowland blades]

Hmmmm v interesting. Perhaps I should research 22LR ammo better.

I don't think I would point even a 30 ft lb 22lr skyward in a tree. At 30 ft lb- the 40gr bullet has the same trajectory as a sub 12 .22. But you're putting 2.5x the amount of lead in the air- with a BC far better than an air pellet. The fall out zone would need to be bigger than air. I would think it would travel more than a few 100m if you shot at 45 degrees however.

Totally agree that sub 12 is not forgiving of pellet placement. 22lr would be more so.

I think we can agree that ammo avaliability is excellent for both- perhaps with a slight leaning towards air.

Slugs add another component to FAC air too.

I really have no interest in Air power much above 20 ft lb , under that its spot on . Suppose its all about what you need it to do . But then i also shoot .22 hornet and 223 rem on rabbits more often than i use the Rf rifles this pat 4-5 years

 

[villaman]

I've read this thread with interest, and am going to ask for an FAC-air slot. I thought .22 at 30ftlb looked a sensible choice, and as a long-term-happy sub-12ftlb HW100-user, I was thinking of getting an FAC HW100 also.
What would be the reasons for not getting an HW100, and which alternative should I go for?

HW 100 in any format probably the best sub12 you could buy , but unfortunately at FAC level they are not . Low shot count , long & none adjustable, heavy just to name a a few cons

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

I really have no interest in Air power much above 20 ft lb , under that its spot on . Suppose its all about what you need it to do . But then i also shoot .22 hornet and 223 rem on rabbits more often than i use the Rf rifles this pat 4-5 years

Is that 20 ft lb limit based on the max power a springer can comfortably produce ? It seems a little arbitrary. It puts a .22 pellet trajectory somewhere below that of a sub 12 .177

I don't think exact FAC power is that important in FAC air rifles. Very few airgun quarry will benefit from the additional energy (except perhaps fox). But you may as well have the flattest trajectory you can- with whatever pellets suit the rifle. Something around 950fps seems a rough limit for pellets. Slugs can approach 1050 I believe.

So for .22 somewhere around 30-35ft lbs gives you the flattest trajectory possible.

When you can clear out a whole field of rabbits with a CF its hard returning to long careful stalks taking 35 yard shots

 

[Overlay]

I really have no interest in Air power much above 20 ft lb , under that its spot on . Suppose its all about what you need it to do . But then i also shoot .22 hornet and 223 rem on rabbits more often than i use the Rf rifles this pat 4-5 years

i use my hornet on rabbits it’s got to be headshots if you use the carcases, but a very useful tool