Finally...the tide of opinion is turning
- Thread starter zambezi
- Start date
Rewulf
Well-Known Member
That , is an incredibly weak argument ,Im surprised you even tried it TBH.
For one , homeopaths arent even employed by the NHS ,
People also ask
Is homeopathy part of the NHS?Is homeopathy available on the NHS? Homeopathy isn't widely available on the NHS. In 2017, NHS England recommended that GPs and other prescribers should stop providing it. This is because they found "no clear or robust evidence to support the use of homeopathy on the NHS
So very difficult to 'force vaccination on people you dont even employ ?
Accupuncture and reflexologists likewise.
Is acupuncture covered by NHS?
Acupuncture on the NHS
Acupuncture is sometimes available on the NHS, most often from GP surgeries or physiotherapists, although access is limited. Most acupuncture patients pay for private treatment. The cost of acupuncture varies widely between practitioners.
The fact is, the quoted 19 % includes these , as you term them 'alternative' therapies, and certainly isnt entirely made up from them. (Its fairly vague on that, and isnt really a proper link)
But it still leaves 81 % of the unvaxxed being mainstream healthcare professionals, which makes your comment that 'most' of those refusing the jab being loons , a bit fake newsie Im afraid.
So, 92% of actual medical practitioners were vaxxed and boosted. Pretty good c.f. the general population.
Which is actually lower than the nurses, pharmacists, midwives, secretaries and managers. Who show greater uptake.
As I said, my feeling, having had more contact than I would like with all sorts, in recent months, is that they are all on-side about this, and somewhat despairing of their colleagues who are not. I've even sensed, a couple of times, when the subject came up (from them, not at my instigation) that the flat-out un-vaxed ones were perhaps not well suited to their roles. To put it mildly.
Only slightly more than the care workers, or the great unvaxxed "health associate professionals", no doubt trusting in acupuncture, reflexology, or homeopathy to protect them, or their customers.
As of two days ago 37.303,021 of the UK population were there. Out of at least 67 million. I make that about 56%
Hmm, ISTM that the medical practitioners are the primary hold-outs. But nobody tangles with them, and their BMA union.
What to make of that ?
The ones who still don't want it are vocal and over-represented by our meeja, are unlikely to change their views by now, so it's pragmatic for the government to give up further persuasion as not worth the effort. Doesn't mean that the carrot and stick approach hasn't been entirely without worth.
Which is actually lower than the nurses, pharmacists, midwives, secretaries and managers. Who show greater uptake.
As I said, my feeling, having had more contact than I would like with all sorts, in recent months, is that they are all on-side about this, and somewhat despairing of their colleagues who are not. I've even sensed, a couple of times, when the subject came up (from them, not at my instigation) that the flat-out un-vaxed ones were perhaps not well suited to their roles. To put it mildly.
Only slightly more than the care workers, or the great unvaxxed "health associate professionals", no doubt trusting in acupuncture, reflexology, or homeopathy to protect them, or their customers.
As of two days ago 37.303,021 of the UK population were there. Out of at least 67 million. I make that about 56%
Hmm, ISTM that the medical practitioners are the primary hold-outs. But nobody tangles with them, and their BMA union.
What to make of that ?
The ones who still don't want it are vocal and over-represented by our meeja, are unlikely to change their views by now, so it's pragmatic for the government to give up further persuasion as not worth the effort. Doesn't mean that the carrot and stick approach hasn't been entirely without worth.
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Rewulf
Well-Known Member
Well thats a whole basket of assumptions there
Im absolutely positive you speak for the entire 1.3 million people employed by the NHS there.......Surely you mean the 'My way or the highway' approach ?
Nothing like a good threat to focus the mind eh ?
But the fact is , they are used to being threatened on a daily basis, threats from patients , patients relatives, and the threat of disease, including covid, whats another threat in the grand scheme of things ?
The faux covid-vaccine-is-only-answer narrative is unravelling fast.
On 25th January 2022 US Senator Ron Johnson convened a very large gathering of medical, legal and media professionals.
In a lengthy presentation, the suppression of the use of treatments other than vaccines is described as "fraud". As ever, the detail is wide-ranging and compelling.
On 25th January 2022 US Senator Ron Johnson convened a very large gathering of medical, legal and media professionals.
In a lengthy presentation, the suppression of the use of treatments other than vaccines is described as "fraud". As ever, the detail is wide-ranging and compelling.
Inevitably tech "fact-checkers" at Google will tear down the You Tube posting of Sen Ron Johnson's forum, so here is the Rumble posting too:
rumble.com
COVID-19: A Second Opinion
Discussion begins around 40 minute mark. Sen. Ron Johnson moderates a panel discussion, COVID-19: A Second Opinion. A group of world renowned doctors and medical experts provide a different perspectiv
rumble.com
That's how its easy to recognise it in others, as possibly an even more serious condition in this case.
Rewulf
Well-Known Member
Theres being obsessive , and theres being passionate, you could say we are both passionate about BASC and how they believe they speak for all shooting sports, when they clearly dont.
I feel the need to voice my opinion on the matter from time to time....
Covid , and specifically the way the pandemic has been handled, is another thing I feel passionate about, and when someone says stuff like 'Any NHS staff who dont want vaccinating , are a bunch of loons, who are crap at their job anyway' I feel the need to 'correct' such an ignorant opinion.
Compulsory vaccination in any form, and however ill advised , is a medical procedure that violates a whole raft of human rights laws.
Thats not my opinion , thats just fact.
Its been ruled unconstitutional and illegal in the States, and if challenged , would have been ruled illegal here.
Luckily for the UK taxpayer, it hasnt come to that, we just had to sit through months of threats and coercion to get here.
The NHS workers I KNOW , who all happen to be front line nurses , doctors and ambulance/paramedics, the vast majority of which have been vaccinated , some very happy to , and some who just couldnt be bothered with the aggro of declining, but some who , decided to stand their ground and take it as far as they dare (and not a single 'alternative' therapist among them)
There are always plenty of keyboard warriors on forums who will ridicule those that have a non mainstream opinion, those that are quick to claim 'Here we are with another internet medical expert'
Yet when actual medical people decide they are going to have a non mainstream opinion, like a refusal to have an experimental vaccine with dubious efficacy, and some rare but serious side effects, they are lambasted by these same people ?
Youve had two people who , have made serious allegations on the job description, mental capacity , and professionalism of those that declined vaccination for covid, without ANY basis for doing so, and I thought that was worth challenging.
So call me obsessive if you like , I just thought it was wrong.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/D4RGFRKHW5LSXGV6AWWMKRSRSE.jpg)
Austria set to make COVID shots compulsory after bill clears parliament
Austria's lower house of parliament passed a bill on Thursday making COVID-19 vaccinations compulsory for adults as of Feb. 1, bringing Austria closer to introducing the first such sweeping coronavirus vaccine mandate in the European Union.
www.reuters.com
Cootmeurer
Well-Known Member
Stop already with the ignorance, especially your ignorance of the US Medical system
Dr Rand Paul is a licensed physician and has been continuously for almost 20 years. In the US, a Medical School Graduate (Dr Paul graduated from Duke Univ School of Med - a very highly respected med school) that passes the Medical Boards is LICENSED to practice medicine. They are a fully accredited M.D.
They may then seek CERTIFICATION in a specialty, which he did as an ophthalmologist. He eventually gave up his certification and started his own certification organization due to significant disagreements with the prior certification group (as I remember it was something about all new Docs needed to recertify every 5 years while all old docs were grandfathered in with perpetual certification) .
He positions have been relatively consistent , at least as far as politicians go, with a strong Libertarian bent. I have personally met the man, and he is one of only two politicians that I have ever donated money to.
He has been physically attacked and injured for his political stance by a radical leftist. He and his wife have also been physically threatened on camera by left wing activists.
He has been one of Dr. Fauci harshest critics and the majority of his lines of questioning (as is appropriate under our political oversight system) has been accurate and has often been proven true in retrospect. He was the first to challenge Fauci about US funding of research at Wuhan (denied then by Fauci, now a proven fact), gain of function research (again, Fauci denial, now known as fact).
Currently there are 4 Medical Doctors in the US Senate, and all are Republicans. All 4 are known for being Dr Fauci harshest critics. There are also 14 Doctors in the House, and all but two of those are Republican. If there is a party that lacks medical/scientific credentials in Congress, it isn’t the Republicans
Your use of the phrase "radical leftist" tells me all I need to know
You're just another MAGA hatted wackaloon
Cheers
Bruce
Mick Miller
Well-Known Member
At this point we all have to admit that Omicron is a pandemic of the fully vaccinated. Thank heavens I only had the one!
The Fauci vs. Rand Paul thing is pure theatre though. Why we have to waste time debating about either of these intellectual and medical lightweights is beyond me, neither of these political puppets should be listened to any further. It's just political point scoring and the pair of them are both invested in all the same companies, so you're unlikely to get a scintilla of truth from either of them. Fauci's past is marred by his hideous decisions during the HIV/AIDS period, which led to many deaths, unpleasant experiments on children and the vulnerable along with many other suspect trials.
Rand Paul is the friendly prosecutor - he won't ask the difficult questions though.
If you want to discern the 'facts' and likely outcomes, don't look to the US who have systematically obfuscated all their data. Look instead to the highly vaccinated (I mean up to three doses plus) countries like Israel, Denmark, Ireland and the UK.
It clearly doesn't work very well at all and it's safety profile is woeful. No wonder those on the frontlines choose to refuse further (or any) exposure to experimental mRNA. The idea that several more billion spike proteins, specifically tailored to a variant that has now long ceased to exist in the wild, is going to infer any long lasting immunity is frankly for the birds at this point. The 'miracle' pushed by Trump (and, oddly at the time derided by Democrats who suddenly did an about turn after the election) will be regarded as the single biggest failure in pharmacological history, of that I'm pretty sure.
I find it surprising that after two years no one is talking about effective treatment before hospitalisation is necessary, when many effective treatments appear to be available and cheaply too. It's seems we all have to worship at the altar of mRNA, despite the clear evidence that it doesn't bloody work for any length of time.
My one regret is having it as I am pretty sure I'd had the delta early on. I don't think I needed one at all as natural immunity through exposure is clearly a better, more robust immunity. But, it seems politics and money has crept into a scientific debate and as a result any dissent must be crushed and branded as either a 'trumper' or 'leftwaffe' mindset.. Whatever happened to us?
You won't get any truth out of the mainstream media either, so don't be thinking they're going to help you to navigate the smokescreens, it really does take a lot of digging that the time poor simply won't have the ability to undertake.
The Fauci vs. Rand Paul thing is pure theatre though. Why we have to waste time debating about either of these intellectual and medical lightweights is beyond me, neither of these political puppets should be listened to any further. It's just political point scoring and the pair of them are both invested in all the same companies, so you're unlikely to get a scintilla of truth from either of them. Fauci's past is marred by his hideous decisions during the HIV/AIDS period, which led to many deaths, unpleasant experiments on children and the vulnerable along with many other suspect trials.
Rand Paul is the friendly prosecutor - he won't ask the difficult questions though.
If you want to discern the 'facts' and likely outcomes, don't look to the US who have systematically obfuscated all their data. Look instead to the highly vaccinated (I mean up to three doses plus) countries like Israel, Denmark, Ireland and the UK.
It clearly doesn't work very well at all and it's safety profile is woeful. No wonder those on the frontlines choose to refuse further (or any) exposure to experimental mRNA. The idea that several more billion spike proteins, specifically tailored to a variant that has now long ceased to exist in the wild, is going to infer any long lasting immunity is frankly for the birds at this point. The 'miracle' pushed by Trump (and, oddly at the time derided by Democrats who suddenly did an about turn after the election) will be regarded as the single biggest failure in pharmacological history, of that I'm pretty sure.
I find it surprising that after two years no one is talking about effective treatment before hospitalisation is necessary, when many effective treatments appear to be available and cheaply too. It's seems we all have to worship at the altar of mRNA, despite the clear evidence that it doesn't bloody work for any length of time.
My one regret is having it as I am pretty sure I'd had the delta early on. I don't think I needed one at all as natural immunity through exposure is clearly a better, more robust immunity. But, it seems politics and money has crept into a scientific debate and as a result any dissent must be crushed and branded as either a 'trumper' or 'leftwaffe' mindset.. Whatever happened to us?
You won't get any truth out of the mainstream media either, so don't be thinking they're going to help you to navigate the smokescreens, it really does take a lot of digging that the time poor simply won't have the ability to undertake.
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Rewulf
Well-Known Member
Are we saying that these people dont exist ?
Rewulf
Well-Known Member
What are you talking about? Rand Paul's neighbour finally got fed up with his longstanding habit of dumping debris near his property and gave him a proper stomping.
2017 assault
On November 3, 2017, Paul was assaulted by a neighbor, Rene Boucher (then aged 59), a retired anesthesiologist. Paul, who is deaf in one ear,[356] was wearing noise-canceling headphones while mowing his lawn, reportedly enabling Boucher to tackle Paul without his own approach being noticed.[357]Boucher was arrested and charged with one count of fourth-degree assault and released on a $7,500 bond. Paul sustained five broken ribs, of which three were displaced fractures.[358][359] In August 2019, part of Paul's lung required removal as a result of the injuries he suffered during the attack.[360]
Boucher's attorney, Matthew Baker, described it as "a very regrettable dispute between two neighbors over a matter that most people would regard as trivial".[359][361] According to a memorandum filed by Baker the dispute was over Paul repeatedly leaving tree yard debris near his property line with his neighbor.[362] Rand Paul and his wife deny this, they claim that the "media" has "misrepresented" this "from the beginning" and that the attack was "politically motivated." They claim that Boucher had threatened Donald Trump earlier and that he was "a vocal hater" of Trump and the GOP.[363]
Boucher was originally charged in Kentucky state court,[364] but was later charged in federal court, where he ultimately pleaded guilty to assaulting a member of Congress.[365] The state-court charge was dismissed after Boucher pleaded guilty to the federal charge.[365] Boucher was initially sentenced to 30 days in prison, one year of probation, 100 hours of community service, and a $10,000 fine. The federal prosecutors had sought a 21-month term and appealed the lenient sentence.[365]
In September 2019, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit vacated Boucher's sentence of 30 days, ruling it was unreasonably short, indicating "closer review" was in order, and the case was sent back to the lower court for resentencing.[366] An appeal to the Supreme Court was denied.[367] At his resentencing, Boucher received a prison term of eight months, plus another six months of home confinement, and was given credit for the 30 days he had previously served. Prosecutors felt the downward departure from their request for a 21-month sentence was too great, but the judge said Boucher's eight years in the military, being forced to sell his home to pay a $580,000 judgment assessed by the state court against him in the civil case brought by Paul, and his completed community service mitigated against any additional prison time. Boucher expressed his regrets and contrition for his attack.[368]
Mick Miller
Well-Known Member
I would add to my comments on US data this one statement. The information coming out of the DoD is quite shocking. But, it cannot be questioned. The data relates to adverse events and reactions in military staff only, these are fit, active and for the main part, young persons that have had serious reactions to the mRNA vaccines.
Unlike VAERS, whose data has been subject to many attempts at smearing, debunking and misdirecting in the wider press, the DoD system is only accessible by the military, can only be completed by qualified doctors and physicians and the results are subject to the same levels of scrutiny that you would expect in the military. It doesn't make for pleasant reading and in any other trial, would have led to the immediate cessation and suspension of the programme.
We really need to start the conversation around effective treatments, especially as this is not going away anytime soon (although, if it follows the course of every other virus in recorded history, we can expect it to become a. more transmissable and b. less severe in outcome).
Unlike VAERS, whose data has been subject to many attempts at smearing, debunking and misdirecting in the wider press, the DoD system is only accessible by the military, can only be completed by qualified doctors and physicians and the results are subject to the same levels of scrutiny that you would expect in the military. It doesn't make for pleasant reading and in any other trial, would have led to the immediate cessation and suspension of the programme.
We really need to start the conversation around effective treatments, especially as this is not going away anytime soon (although, if it follows the course of every other virus in recorded history, we can expect it to become a. more transmissable and b. less severe in outcome).
Rewulf
Well-Known Member
Noo , the neighbours lawyer 'said' he kicked his ass over a property dispute
Otherwise the crime could well have been said to be politically motivated, thus increasing the penalty, which is kind of what happened in the end anyway.
That is just wrong.
How can breaking ribs and causing the loss of someone's lung be a reasonable action in the matter of how close he leaves hedge clippings next to a boundary fence?
Plus, the court result shows culpability on the part of the assailant.
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