Finally...the tide of opinion is turning

And to try and insinuate , that those branches of the NHS you consider 'alternative' are the ones fighting the mandate is an absolute lie, where did you get that information , lets see a link ?
Attached from the BMJ. Reasonable trusted source I feel.
The vaccine works, not perfectly but well enough. It's been tested properly on many more subjects than normal trials.
Anyone who works in the health and care service should have it (barring an excellent medical reason) or not be working in a clinical situation.
 
By what reasoning?
Because these workers will come into close contact with many people who may be particularly vulnerable to being exposed to them, should they be shedding virus. Vaccination may/will lower the chances of that.

Because they may/will be less vulnerable themselves, so might be more productive.

Point of information, I have had three appointments re-scheduled in the last two months, because the clinicians involved had, despite taking all precautions AFAIK, tested positive, they were being tested carefully and regularly. That's out of seven appointments in the last three months.

Two of them were still able to discuss my condition over the 'phone, thankfully, but also all re-scheduled face-face for ten days later.

I also had to reschedule one, due to having caught it myself (self diagnosed with lateral flow test). For two operations I had to take PCR tests two days before at the hospital, before being admitted into the ward.

IME the NHS is still working OK. When you really need it.

TBH I have little sympathy for those in the system who won't engage, and particularly those outside it who encourage them. Which, I think, would also be a commonly held view by those on the inside as well.
 
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That vaccines are the best method of dealing with viral disease. So all healthcare workers should be comfortable with this as a concept.

That does not answer the question. You are just saying "do it" with different words.

There would appear to be just two potential arguments in favour of care worker vaccination:

  • Staff less likely to be hospitalised after exposure to virus
  • Staff less likely to pass virus on to patients

The first argument falls with a simple test: how many serving NHS workers [or members of the wider public] haven't had covid? How many of that huge majority that have survived infection required hospitalisation?

The second argument is crushed by data from Oxford University, US CDC, Iceland, Denmark, etc - Omicron travelled fastest through the vaccinated. Consultant Steve James referenced the raft of data which affirms this: TV's Dr Hilary: Mandating vaccines now makes very little sense
 
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The Health Ministry has until February 18 to respond.

Austria plans to ease some restrictions from Tuesday as its nationwide vaccine mandate, the first in Europe, comes into effect.

But in order to justify his government’s heavy-handed rules, the court has asked Health Minister Wolfgang Mückstein to provide data across a broad range of topics including hospitalisations and deaths “with” as opposed to “from” Covid-19, the efficacy of masks and vaccines, and evidence supporting the now-rescinded “lockdown for the unvaccinated”.
 
The second argument is crushed by data from Oxford University, US CDC, Iceland, Denmark, etc - Omicron travelled fastest through the vaccinated. Consultant Steve James referenced the raft of data which affirms this: TV's Dr Hilary: Mandating vaccines now makes very little sense
Specious.

The majority of people are vaccinated. The majority of people have had, or will, get covid. The majority now get the Omicron strain/strains. Omicron is more transmissible, but overall (but not in every case) less severe than previous versions. Long may that continue. Hardly surprising that the majority of confirmed cases are amongst the vaccinated.

This does not mean that vaccines are ineffective. Nor that in some implausible way they somehow make we vaccinated people more likely to catch it and spread it.

If you have any shred of data that suggests otherwise, please state it.

Being vaccinated, or already having had it, will not necessarily stop you getting it again. It is endemic, will continue to mutate, for better or for worse, so we are all just going to have to learn to live with the situation.

Should the decision not to be vaccinated be free, well of course it should. Should an individual make personal choices about that, taking into account possible restrictions of other freedoms, yes, but hopefully in an informed way.

BTW Zambezi, you still haven't told us your personal decision whether to be vaccinated or not. That's entirely your private choice, but in the absence of a negative, I'm presuming that you have. Been vaccinated, that is.
 
While i do agree with the above, surely if the vaccine makes any symptoms less that means more people who are vaccinated are likely to be asymptomatic so actually more likely to spread the virus as u'll never know u had it.

But ignoring the vaccine thing in the UK wot i really can't understand is allowing people to travel freely with no tests.
Wether or not ur at risk of spreading the virus will come down to many other thing too about how u live ur life than just being vaccinated, and atleast ur possibly only transmitting the virus strain already present in uk..

Its just a completely bonkers idea, it is well known the vaccine doesn't make u immune and omnicron got to these shores entirely from triple jabbed travellers. And to be fair to government this time they did try to red list the countries pretty early, but even with that and compulsory testing it was everywhere in no time.
If ur going on a foreign holiday is it really too much to to get a PCR test done on ur return??
We're lucky omnicorn is seems to be a generally less severe virus but the next mutation, which will come, may not be and to just let folk travel freely with absolutely no checks is crazy, by the time the next variant is discovered in a multicultural UK + everyone wanting there 2 foriegn hols every year it will be widespread before they have a chance to react.
And if the next 1 happens to be a worse strain it could be a big problem.
 
If ur going on a foreign holiday is it really too much to to get a PCR test done on ur return?

The virus is declared as endemic by all nations. It is with the world like the common cold. So checks at borders seems of no more value than testing for flu unless...

omnicorn is seems to be a generally less severe virus but the next mutation, which will come, may not be

So I would favour living with SARS2 as we do the common cold...unless there is an uptick in mortality.
 
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Judges asking politicians what's going on? Police say we were just following orders. There's seems to be a precedent for this somewhere.


Just wow. The questions being asked by Austrian courts go right to the heart of all the covid narrative lies.

But the article is posted in the Sydney telegraph...very clever. That newspaper is showing the Oz government what Australians will be asking in short order!



1643708702849.webp
 
The thread opened with Rand Paul. Here he speaks with clarity on unconstitutional nature of Biden's executive order mandating vaccines. [this recording made before the Supreme court ruling came out]

He further points out the chaos that such ill-founded mandates will precipitate, anywhere they are applied in the world.

 
These figures are more or less replicated here in the UK proportionately for pop. numbers. . For a disease so deadly no more deaths , none registered from the flu or other normal causes . I just don't believe the hype , I don't wear a mask , I won't have the very experimental jab , those who would call me selfish I call fools . Massive global scam for a slightly worse than average flu , not worse than the SARS infection of 2017 .
I very much agree. Trouble is, I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theories regarding why it was made into a pandemic. There must be some reasoning behind it (nefarious as it may well be) but I'm obviously too stupid to figure it out. I'm not too stupid to realise something is very, very rotten though :-|
 
The thread opened with Rand Paul. Here he speaks with clarity on unconstitutional nature of Biden's executive order mandating vaccines. [this recording made before the Supreme court ruling came out]

He further points out the chaos that such ill-founded mandates will precipitate, anywhere they are applied in the world.

Nothing that Rand Paul says can EVER be trusted - he flip flops anytime he sees a personal advantage
Prior to Trump being elected in 2016, Rand Paul was one of his harshest critics
When Trump was elected, he became one of Trumps closest buddies
After the January 6 insurrection he said (in Congress) that he and Trump were finished.
A few days later (after being mobbed by MAGA supporters at an airport) he was back supporting Trump
Last week he again said that he and trump were finished
Add to this his lack of real medical qualifications (he started his own opthalmologists association - of which only he, his wife and brother in law are the only members)
He has been sparring with Dr Fauci since Covid started and always come out worst in their "conversations"
The man is a self promoting medical fraud and nothing he says can be trusted.

Cheers

Bruce
 
Attached from the BMJ. Reasonable trusted source I feel.
Where is the link from the BMJ ?
Because these workers will come into close contact with many people who may be particularly vulnerable to being exposed to them, should they be shedding virus. Vaccination may/will lower the chances of that.

Because they may/will be less vulnerable themselves, so might be more productive.
This is the whole point of the matter, its because of all this exposure that many feel they dont even need a vaccine, many workers have had covid , some multiple times , they have immune response, why then do they need a vaccine, that gives them no better protection ?
Point of information, I have had three appointments re-scheduled in the last two months, because the clinicians involved had, despite taking all precautions AFAIK, tested positive, they were being tested carefully and regularly. That's out of seven appointments in the last three months.
Youve inadvertantly answered your own question.
Or are you saying that all the clinicians who were supposed to be treating you , were those that chose not to be vaccinated ?
Do you not understand , that testing positive could just because theyve been exposed to covid, and not actually ill with it , or shedding ?
Or do you think that having 3+ jabs, erects a magic shield where covid doesnt even enter your body ?

What the NHS SHOULD be doing , is testing for antibodies and T cells across its staff, and certainly taking into consideration, those that have had covid.
But like a lot of things from this pandemic, a common sense approach doesnt seem to be very common.
TBH I have little sympathy for those in the system who won't engage, and particularly those outside it who encourage them. Which, I think, would also be a commonly held view by those on the inside as well.
Guess what ?
They dont NEED your 'sympathy' , they were brave enough during the early days , to do their jobs , not really knowing how deadly the disease was.
Yes they got a clap, but they got no pay rise though, but worked on regardless, and then they got illegally threatened with dismissal for their labour, and do you know what the 'commonly held view' is ?
Overwhelming support, from those who would have liked to refuse , but darent, because they have bills to pay and kids to support.
Dont try and create a mythical , 'them and us' division in the NHS over vaccination, it doesnt exist.
Ooh look a fact check site , it must be true if it says 'fact check' ??

Does it actually say there , that ''Neither primary vaccination nor natural immunity is generally stopping infections with the omicron variant, but research shows booster doses substantially increase protection. Yet, Republican Sen. Rand Paul claimed that a case of COVID-19 provides “an immunity better than the vaccine.”

Yet fact checking the fact checker reveals.
Some people who have recovered from COVID-19 might not benefit from COVID-19 vaccination.
6
,
19
In fact, one study found that previous COVID-19 was associated with increased adverse events following vaccination with the Comirnaty BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine (Pfizer–BioNTech).
20
In addition, there are rare reports of serious adverse events following COVID-19 vaccination.
21
In Switzerland, residents who can prove they have recovered from a SARS-CoV-2 infection through a positive PCR or other test in the past 12 months are considered equally protected as those who have been fully vaccinated.
22
 
But ignoring the vaccine thing in the UK wot i really can't understand is allowing people to travel freely with no tests.
Wether or not ur at risk of spreading the virus will come down to many other thing too about how u live ur life than just being vaccinated, and atleast ur possibly only transmitting the virus strain already present in uk..
Travel to and from England is not to be entirely unchecked. Even if fully vaxxed you will still have to complete a passenger locator form.

If not fully vaxxed then much the same testing rules will still apply, for exit or entry.

Of course if some more worrying strain springs up, these rules may be adjusted again. Meanwhile the idea is that. since England is pretty much full of Omicron, there's not much point in worrying about whether any more comes in, from a vaxxed person.

Travel to England from another country during coronavirus (COVID-19)

If you arrive in England after 4am, 11 February, the following rules will apply.

Fully vaccinated – from 11 February
If you qualify as fully vaccinated for travel to England, you:

will not need to take a COVID-19 test before you travel to England or after you arrive
will not need to quarantine when you arrive
You will need to complete a passenger locator form before you travel to England.

Check if you can follow the rules for people who are fully vaccinated – includes people aged 17 and under.

Not fully vaccinated – from 11 February
If you do not qualify as fully vaccinated for travel to England, you will need to:

show proof of a negative COVID-19 test – test to be taken in the 2 days before you travel to England
book and pay for a COVID-19 PCR test – to be taken after you arrive in England
complete a passenger locator form before you travel to England
You will need to book the PCR test before you travel.

You will not need to quarantine, unless the result of the PCR test is positive.

If you arrive in England before 4am, 11 February you must follow the current rules, as set out in this guidance below.


...

To qualify under the fully vaccinated rules for travel to England, you must have proof of full vaccination with a full course of an approved vaccine.

You must have had your final dose of the vaccine at least 14 days before you arrive in England. The day you had your final dose does not count as one of the 14 days.

The proof of vaccination must have been issued by either:

the UK vaccination programme
the United Nations vaccine programme for staff and volunteers
an overseas vaccination programme with an approved proof of vaccination for travel to the UK
Check which vaccines are approved and the list of countries and territories with approved proof of vaccination.

Natural immunity
Proof of natural immunity will not be accepted as an alternative to proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test.


So that's e.g. the Swiss who consider "natural immunity" to be legit., or certain tennis players, or other vaccine refuseniks, scuppered.

BTW, the Swiss have recently banned "covid parties", whereby previously uninfected could mingle, or even engage in "close personal contact" with active virus shedders, pass the bounty on, and in so doing get their "natural immunity" certificate after hopefully having tested positive. Not a policy that I would have recommended.

BTW, if you have invested in the multitude of private PCR testing firms, you might want to re-think.
 
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