Humane dispatch for livestock

[Xbolt308]

My understanding of the current legal position (I fully accept I may be wrong but nether the less) is that a shotgun of no less than 410 is acceptable so long as it is done in a way to avoid undue suffering. But, a rifle be that centrefire or rimfire can only be used if that rifle is conditioned for humane despatch and you are on land over which you have authority to shoot. As far as I understand the law, AOLQ is not an appropriate condition because you are not hunting an animal and therefore when carrying out a humane despatch the animal is not a ‘quarry’.

Despite the above, I would hope that a degree of common sense is applied if a person safely conducts a humane despatch to avoid the prolonged suffering of an animal……but as we all know sometimes the technical application of law seems to lack any common sense.

You are quite correct. I have just had my FEO out and on advising that I attend DVC for Police Scotland he enquired if I had Humane Despatch on my ticket. Fortunately I have either not had to use my rifle or not willing to use it in the locations but I now have had it confirmed by Firearms Glasgow that you must have humane despatch for any firearms proposed to be used for same. It is also specific to the rifle stated on your FAC and not a blanket for all on your ticket. The Deer Act only covers you for the act of taking the deer to prevent suffering not the use of the firearms. As said, shotgun or in most cases a knife is appropriate dependant on condition of deer.

 

[jb7x57]

Like to see the feo putting a knife in a big red stag with it back legs broke and no other damage from a rta or even catching up with it when it sets off on front legs through undergrowth or woodlands

 

[Cranhill]

Like to see the feo putting a knife in a big red stag with it back legs broke and no other damage from a rta or even catching up with it when it sets off on front legs through undergrowth or woodlands

Fallow and Roe plus Muntjac can be handful after rta or a bad shot.

 

[Colonel]

A 410 2 1/2” has more muzzle energy than a 357 magnum, that’s why it works well

 

[Leupsak]

For sheep and goats .410 2”, 2.5” and bird shot placed a couple of inches from the skull. Excellent wound channel and all the shot remains contained.
Moderated .22 is great when sound is an issue

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Why does the subject of shooting livestock / dogs come up so often on here?

 

[old keeper]

I've always used a 410, just remember to hold it a few inches away from the head!

As I've said before, the slaughterhouse I worked in very many years ago always used a 410 for bull slaughter, it never failed!

 

[Leupsak]

Why does the subject of shooting livestock / dogs come up so often on here?

Because we have the tools but most don’t have the training, knowledge or experience

 

[Ratel]

As an aside, I shot what we called runners and riders (escapees) during the foot and mouth.
Big animals running free 7x57 in yards or pens, either .22 if close or ,243 if a bull or the like.
Went to a farm and met the Vet to shoot a large bull in a yard. Did all the safety and risk assessment and with the Vet carrying my empty 7mm in case it escaped, I proceeded to whack it with a head shot from .243. Bang!! and the bull rocked and stood looking at us, a spot on shot as normal, but not dead. Plan B says the Vet and passed me the 7mm. Down goes the bull, two holes in skull 1/2" apart, explain that one.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Because we have the tools but most don’t have the training, knowledge or experience

I suppose I was being flippant - I get that, but the regularity of the posts indicates that there are a lot of people who have the need (or the perceived need) for shooting dogs and livestock.

Everyone seems to have this perception that because they have guns, they will need to shoot a cow at some point and it seems that this is used as somewhere to find out how to do it.

I would respectfully suggest that if you are using the stalking directory as the manual to learn how to do things like this then you might not be the best person for the job.

 

[@theroedeerguy]

You are quite correct. I have just had my FEO out and on advising that I attend DVC for Police Scotland he enquired if I had Humane Despatch on my ticket. Fortunately I have either not had to use my rifle or not willing to use it in the locations but I now have had it confirmed by Firearms Glasgow that you must have humane despatch for any firearms proposed to be used for same. It is also specific to the rifle stated on your FAC and not a blanket for all on your ticket. The Deer Act only covers you for the act of taking the deer to prevent suffering not the use of the firearms. As said, shotgun or in most cases a knife is appropriate dependant on condition of deer.

That is incorrect information, your FEO is mistaken.

A firearm which is being acquired for the “good reason” of humane dispatch would need added as such but a rifle obtained for deer stalking or vermin control does not need to have humane dispatch listed to be used for this lawful purpose.

See page 106 section 13.9

https://www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/FirearmsLicensingLaw_April2016.pdf

For example, you are out lamping rabbits in Scotland with a .17HMR on ground where you have permission to shoot. The .17HMR is listed in the conditions on your certificate for the shooting of all lawful quarry.

Whilst spotlighting you observe a deer stuck with a rear leg in a stock fence.

It becomes obvious that the deer has catastrophic injuries and in order to end its suffering, you humanely dispatch it with the .17HMR.

This is completely acceptable under the provision of section 25 Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 and there is NO requirement to have humane dispatch on your certificate to use the rifle for this lawful purpose in the circumstances described.

 

[Rake Aboot]

If you shoot on farms then eventually a farmer will ask you to shoot something.
If you take the time to come on here and double check how to do it , then I would suggest you are just the right person for the job.
Disrespectfully

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Agree to disagree Rake but I do see your point.

It’s shooting something - not rocket science.

 

[Dave Lakes]

I suppose I was being flippant - I get that, but the regularity of the posts indicates that there are a lot of people who have the need (or the perceived need) for shooting dogs and livestock.

Everyone seems to have this perception that because they have guns, they will need to shoot a cow at some point and it seems that this is used as somewhere to find out how to do it.

I would respectfully suggest that if you are using the stalking directory as the manual to learn how to do things like this then you might not be the best person for the job.

I suppose because it’s one of those things that you don’t get any advanced warning of, and therefore it’s probably quite sensible to be a bit forward prepared for what you’re going to do, in what would be an already quite stressful situation. I had never heard of the HSA before, so the thread has served a purpose in pointing at least one person to a good source of information

 

[VSS]

Why does the subject of shooting livestock / dogs come up so often on here?

In the past, all livestock farmers would have had a gun (and the knowledge) to do the the job themselves. However, many never bothered to renew certificates when the process became more onerous (gun cabinet required, etc etc) so it's only natural that, when in need, they turn to someone who does have a gun to help them out. In all likelihood that will be whoever they have granted permission to shoot on their farm, and almost as likely to be a member of this site.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

In the past, all livestock farmers would have had a gun (and the knowledge) to do the the job themselves. However, many never bothered to renew certificates when the process became more onerous (gun cabinet required, etc etc) so it's only natural that, when in need, they turn to someone who does have a gun to help them out. In all likelihood that will be whoever they have granted permission to shoot on their farm, and almost as likely to be a member of this site.

I get that, but if that person needs to come on here to find out how to kill something then I would suggest they are acting out with their skill set and should recommend someone else do the job (im aware this is less than ideal).

 

[VSS]

I get that, but if that person needs to come on here to find out how to kill something then I would suggest they are acting out with their skill set and should recommend someone else do the job (im aware this is less than ideal).

Not at all. As I mentioned in another thread, there's enough of a difference between shooting a deer at distance with a rifle, and shooting an animal at close range for HD purposes that it makes sense for even an experienced firearms user to seek clarity. However, HD is by no means beyond the skill set of any shooter.

 

[Greenmist]

That is incorrect information, your FEO is mistaken.

A firearm which is being acquired for the “good reason” of humane dispatch would need added as such but a rifle obtained for deer stalking or vermin control does not need to have humane dispatch listed to be used for this lawful purpose.

See page 106 section 13.9

https://www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/FirearmsLicensingLaw_April2016.pdf

For example, you are out lamping rabbits in Scotland with a .17HMR on ground where you have permission to shoot. The .17HMR is listed in the conditions on your certificate for the shooting of all lawful quarry.

Whilst spotlighting you observe a deer stuck with a rear leg in a stock fence.

It becomes obvious that the deer has catastrophic injuries and in order to end its suffering, you humanely dispatch it with the .17HMR.

This is completely acceptable under the provision of section 25 Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 and there is NO requirement to have humane dispatch on your certificate to use the rifle for this lawful purpose in the circumstances described.

Does that cover domestic livestock?

 

[308rws]

There is often a degree of obfuscation between 'humane dispatch' and 'home slaughter'.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Not at all. As I mentioned in another thread, there's enough of a difference between shooting a deer at distance with a rifle, and shooting an animal at close range for HD purposes that it makes sense for even an experienced firearms user to seek clarity. However, HD is by no means beyond the skill set of any shooter.

What exactly is the difference?