Humane dispatch for livestock

[riflerob]

I'd personally be dubious about using any jacketed round for dispatch of livestock - anything high velocity runs (to me) an unacceptable risk of going straight through, and ricochet then is a possibility.

Most of my farm dispatch has been on sheep, for which wither a 22LR or (preferably) a 410 shotgun will do the job every time, with far lower ricochet chance.
Don't let the end of the barrel come into contact with the head (pressure spike risk), take the shot if possible from 6" or so away, and 14grammes of any shot in a 410 will act like a solid slug - but with the benefit that it will 'spread' once inside the skull, and cause catastrophic damage and instant death.

I've used 22LR in the past when requested to, and have found that a second follow up shot is sometimes useful (still breathing, though probably rapidly expiring) whereas the 410 it's over instantly.
These days I have a moderator for the 410, so it's a lot more suitable inside farm buildings or with other people or livestock in the vicinity, and, as I said, I think it's a far more effective tool for the job

 

[Ratel]

Difference when shooting quarry you shoot them at a distance ect
Dispatch may be in a brick or steel building or close up in a field on on a road ricochet is a very big factor
I know of people putting down horses and cattle on the shot they have lunged forward and landed on them even though the shot was a killer so think carefully about close quarter shots especially with a deer calibre

Always stand to the side with horses, they invariably fall forwards. That's why most used to use the old .32 Bell gun. Shot a few with one when working in hunt kennels.

 

[8x57]

I'd personally be dubious about using any jacketed round for dispatch of livestock - anything high velocity runs (to me) an unacceptable risk of going straight through, and ricochet then is a possibility.

Most of my farm dispatch has been on sheep, for which wither a 22LR or (preferably) a 410 shotgun will do the job every time, with far lower ricochet chance.
Don't let the end of the barrel come into contact with the head (pressure spike risk), take the shot if possible from 6" or so away, and 14grammes of any shot in a 410 will act like a solid slug - but with the benefit that it will 'spread' once inside the skull, and cause catastrophic damage and instant death.

I've used 22LR in the past when requested to, and have found that a second follow up shot is sometimes useful (still breathing, though probably rapidly expiring) whereas the 410 it's over instantly.
These days I have a moderator for the 410, so it's a lot more suitable inside farm buildings or with other people or livestock in the vicinity, and, as I said, I think it's a far more effective tool for the job

A little while ago I did a little experiment regarding penetration tests much on the lines of Julian Hatcher i.e. using layers of pine boards, but in my case I used layers of 2"x 2" and a couple of layers of 3/8" ply. Perhaps not exactly scientific but done to satisfy my own curiosity.
I used a 3" .410 cartridge out of a 12 bore using an adapter as I didn't have access to a full length .410 gun. I compared it with a .22lr subsonic and a 8mm 175grn cast bullet loaded behind a "light" load of Trail Boss.
No surprises with either the .410 or the .22lr though I will try the .410 again when I have access to a full length barrel. However I was rather surprised by the 8mm "light load" lead bullet and the depth of penetration, far far greater than expected. The intention had been to possibly utilise the 8mm load for short range dispatch but I'm now thinking that even this "light" load may be too much for such a purpose other than on the largest of animals and under very controlled conditions. Thus I would be inclined to agree with your views and reservations about using either high velocity or jacketed rounds for dispatch. I shall have to renew my search for a chamber adapter for my 8x57irs that will allow me to shoot .32 S&W long out of my 8mm rifle.

 

[riflerob]

A little while ago I did a little experiment regarding penetration tests much on the lines of Julian Hatcher i.e. using layers of pine boards, but in my case I used layers of 2"x 2" and a couple of layers of 3/8" ply. Perhaps not exactly scientific but done to satisfy my own curiosity.
I used a 3" .410 cartridge out of a 12 bore using an adapter as I didn't have access to a full length .410 gun. I compared it with a .22lr subsonic and a 8mm 175grn cast bullet loaded behind a "light" load of Trail Boss.
No surprises with either the .410 or the .22lr though I will try the .410 again when I have access to a full length barrel. However I was rather surprised by the 8mm "light load" lead bullet and the depth of penetration, far far greater than expected. The intention had been to possibly utilise the 8mm load for short range dispatch but I'm now thinking that even this "light" load may be too much for such a purpose other than on the largest of animals and under very controlled conditions. Thus I would be inclined to agree with your views and reservations about using either high velocity or jacketed rounds for dispatch. I shall have to renew my search for a chamber adapter for my 8x57irs that will allow me to shoot .32 S&W long out of my 8mm rifle.

I'd have thought with the 410 adapter in the 12 bore you'll start to get a bit of shot spread, even in that first 24" of travel, which could lessen the bone penetration capability. Not an issue for something like a sheep, but potentially more of a problem for a bull or a horse.

I've almost always had a 410 of some sort or another, and the more years I put on, the more I'm convinced it's an essential tool - for me, it's used for foxes in cage traps, downed livestock dispatch, pest control around pheasant pens, squirrels.
It's a light gun, you can carry a load of cartridges without being massively weighed down, and with the detachable hushpower moderator it's inaudible at anything over 50 yards away.

I dispatched a fox in a cage trap one evening in November about 30 yards from the house, when I walked back in the wife asked if I'd forgotten the cartridges and had to go back out there again

 

[kingstonandy]

I have a little single barrel folding .410 "poacher's gun" that is ideal for this job, it is very effective and easily tucked into a jacket for discretion.

 

[TH4]

Not at all. As I mentioned in another thread, there's enough of a difference between shooting a deer at distance with a rifle, and shooting an animal at close range for HD purposes that it makes sense for even an experienced firearms user to seek clarity. However, HD is by no means beyond the skill set of any shooter.

So what do they do if they walk up to a deer they have shot and find it is still alive? They shoot it which is no different from HD. I am sure they don't get their phone out and ask the people on SD how to do it.

 

[VSS]

So what do they do if they walk up to a deer they have shot and find it is still alive? They shoot it which is no different from HD. I am sure they don't get their phone out and ask the people on SD how to do it.

That's very different from trying to shoot a penned up pig or lamb, maybe in a confined space, with the animal's loving owner fussing about in the background.
If you've got a wounded deer on the deck your first priority is to keep it there. You have ceased to worry about carcass damage by that stage. Any shot to the vitals will do if a head shot isn't possible, and follow-up shots can be taken from a distance if necessary.

 

[cookingfat]

I have only dispatched a few farm animals over the years so don't have the expertise that some of you guys have but I have seen just about every scenario with deer on road and rail side dispatch.
Some are very mobile and some are not!
Tool for 98% for jobs is 12g or 410
The other 2% are very mobile deer I can't get near to do with a shotgun, then its a 3006 if there's a good back stop! sometimes its 12g with two shots needed, one to get it down and the other to dispatch.
Every call out is different and you need to use your training and expertise to find the right tool for the job.
My biggest concern is now I am swapping over to none toxic amo is the potential for ricochet on hard surfaces with rifle and shotgun, I have never had a front on head shot with shotgun or shot pistol exit the head but side on is a different matter!
I guess the answer is to carry on using lead for dispatch and like every think else be mindful of back stops

 

[Greenmist]

I have a little single barrel folding .410 "poacher's gun" that is ideal for this job, it is very effective and easily tucked into a jacket for discretion.

Same here, paid £20 for it, shortened the barrel to just over 24" and have a slip on moderator

 

[Alantoo]

My biggest concern is now I am swapping over to none toxic amo is the potential for ricochet on hard surfaces with rifle and shotgun, I have never had a front on head shot with shotgun or shot pistol exit the head but side on is a different matter!
I guess the answer is to carry on using lead for dispatch and like every think else be mindful of back stops

I take the .410 Hushpower every time but also my 308 deer rifle just in case. I have only used the .410 and that with lead shot so far.

The bullets I take with me are 110gr V-MAX. I reckoned they were the nearest thing to a lead shot or slug as far as containment within the animal and least likelihood of exit.

Should you want to use lead free you could try the 150gr Hornady MPG which seem to be even more frangible than V-MAX despite their extra weight.

Alan

 

[Triggermortis]

I’ve recently started to re-load for the .410g, dust shot for rats inside buildings, slugs for dispatch etc, I’m just wondering if a full power light shot load (maybe 8gms)or a reduced power heavy shot load (maybe 19gms)might work well for close/ confined space dispatch, what do you recon ?

 

[TH4]

That's very different from trying to shoot a penned up pig or lamb, maybe in a confined space, with the animal's loving owner fussing about in the background.
If you've got a wounded deer on the deck your first priority is to keep it there. You have ceased to worry about carcass damage by that stage. Any shot to the vitals will do if a head shot isn't possible, and follow-up shots can be taken from a distance if necessary.

What you said was there is a difference between shooting an animal at a distance and shooting one close up for HD. You did not mention penned animals. And I see no difference if the owner is there or not, if the shooter is that unsure they should not be doing it in the first place. And if I walked up on a wounded animal the last thing I would do is back off to a distance to shoot it, giving it a chance to get up and run. Anybody sensible would shoot it straight away

 

[Free range rob]

What you said was there is a difference between shooting an animal at a distance and shooting one close up for HD. You did not mention penned animals. And I see no difference if the owner is there or not, if the shooter is that unsure they should not be doing it in the first place. And if I walked up on a wounded animal the last thing I would do is back off to a distance to shoot it, giving it a chance to get up and run. Anybody sensible would shoot it straight away

As I’m reading that, the inclusion of HD is exactly what he was saying, having been involved in it over the years what he says makes sense to me

 

[TH4]

That is exactly the point I was making, in his second post he changed it.

 

[riflerob]

I’ve recently started to re-load for the .410g, dust shot for rats inside buildings, slugs for dispatch etc, I’m just wondering if a full power light shot load (maybe 8gms)or a reduced power heavy shot load (maybe 19gms)might work well for close/ confined space dispatch, what do you recon ?

I can only speak from the view of 2.5" cartridges, but every commercially available one that I've tried does the job perfectly. I think they're all between 12 and 14g.

You're carrying out a humane dispatch. Don't try re-inventing the wheel and 'seeing if it might work' or not.

 

[Triggermortis]

How is tailoring a load to suit my need re-lnventing the wheel?
Do you not reload for your rifle?

I reload not only for economy so why not go the whole 9 yds and develop a specific load that suits both my needs and the firearms I use?
I can’t find dust shot loads available commercially and have a need for them, what am I supposed to do?
My dust and slug loads work perfectly, why shouldn’t I develop a load that reduces recoil yet is capable of dispatching small livestock?

 

[25 Sharps]

That is incorrect information, your FEO is mistaken.

A firearm which is being acquired for the “good reason” of humane dispatch would need added as such but a rifle obtained for deer stalking or vermin control does not need to have humane dispatch listed to be used for this lawful purpose.

See page 106 section 13.9

https://www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/FirearmsLicensingLaw_April2016.pdf

For example, you are out lamping rabbits in Scotland with a .17HMR on ground where you have permission to shoot. The .17HMR is listed in the conditions on your certificate for the shooting of all lawful quarry.

Whilst spotlighting you observe a deer stuck with a rear leg in a stock fence.

It becomes obvious that the deer has catastrophic injuries and in order to end its suffering, you humanely dispatch it with the .17HMR.

This is completely acceptable under the provision of section 25 Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 and there is NO requirement to have humane dispatch on your certificate to use the rifle for this lawful purpose in the circumstances described.

Provided you have an AOLQ condition for the HMR

 

[riflerob]

How is tailoring a load to suit my need re-lnventing the wheel?
Do you not reload for your rifle?

I reload not only for economy so why not go the whole 9 yds and develop a specific load that suits both my needs and the firearms I use?
I can’t find dust shot loads available commercially and have a need for them, what am I supposed to do?
My dust and slug loads work perfectly, why shouldn’t I develop a load that reduces recoil yet is capable of dispatching small livestock?

My apologies, I didn't mean it to sound insulting - but you didn't need to reply quite so aggressively either.

My point is that the 'specific load' already exists, and is there on the shop shelf.
If you were looking for a specialist shotgun load (SSG for example) to comply with being S2 but still be usable for a certain purpose (not sure what that might be in the UK, but there you go) then I'd say it was worthwhile going to all that work.

If, on the other hand, you want a cartridge suitable for putting a badly mutilated sheep out of it's misery, then the cartridge is right there. No faffing about, working out if it's going to do the job for you (and potentially finding out that it doesn't when you pull the trigger).

As to 'reducing recoil', it's a 410. Unless you're built like an anorexic supermodel, it doesn't have 'recoil' to reduce.

 

[Confidis]

Done a few seen a few . With big stuff,
If at all possible have someone very steady close behind and too the side of you with a 12g .
I have never needed back up but I have been that back up .
Unplanned short notice dark and wet .
Stuff goes south very fast.
So many variables . Usually the weapon you have is not the one you need ,but the one you have to use, the location is unplanned and inconvenient.
Not a nice part of the game but most people get satisfaction out of handling intense situations well.
For instance stopping somebody bleeding out was one of the best things I've ever done .
Mentally I passed a personal test .
An emotive subject tempered often by random events.

 

[Triggermortis]

As I said I can’t find dustshot cartridges loaded commercially, I also load for economy and as far as recoil or the reduction of it is concerned, it doesn’t matter how well built you are, when used in a 6” barrel a factory loaded .410g cartridge, especially a 2 1/2 or 3” load produces enough for it to be painful to use.
Having used .410’s for years I was very surprised the first time I fired one in such a short barrelled weapon.