HWV vs GWP

[fallowfellow]

Having spent the past 9 years with a fantastic HWV I lost him in October and got a GWP.

My reasoning for wanting to change breeds was mainly based on the fact that I wanted a slightly more confident dog - the HWV was always a little nervous around other people and other dogs. I was also after a breed that was a little more hardy to cold and wet weather as the HWV really didn't like it. The rest of the traits of the HWV I loved, the nature, the pointing of feather and fur, the tracking ability, he was a true all-rounder.

So I took the plunge and the pup is now nearly 10 months old. He's from primarily Danish lines, having Bryantscroft, Mustwork and Trudvang in his pedigree.

He's definitely been more of a handful than the Vizsla so far. He doesn't have an off switch spending his entire time like a coiled spring. In the house, around the other dogs and people he doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body. The wife's 5 year old cockerpoo is the boss and the german loves nothing more than a cuddle with anyone prepared to give him one, stranger or not. He's as velcro as the Vizsla as far as I'm concerned, always needing to be by my side and pining as soon as he's left. From this point of view he is very similar to the HWV, just a larger turbo charged version.

Get him outside and he's on a different level. The HWV was very easy to train as he was relatively calm, intelligent and keen to please me. He did have a good prey drive but it was very controllable. He got bored of dummies but did enough to get the message and know what was expected when the real thing was put in front of him. The German's prey drive is off the scale. I'm spending an inordinate amount of training time just stopping him from chasing. He wants to kill everything. Squirrels are a favourite sport. He's now half under control but it's taken some time. As soon as we enter woodland he drops 6" onto his haunches and stalks rather than walks. Any movement and he's on point until he knows what caused the movement and then continues stalking. If I can reliably harness this trait he will be one hell of a weapon out stalking but it's hard work, 4 sessions a day trying to harness it. If I didn't work from home it would be very difficult.

He is as intelligent as the HWV, picking up things very quickly, but easily bored and with a much shorter attention span. It's almost a case of teenage cockyness - OK, you've shown me once, Ive got it, now let's go do something more exciting. I'm constantly trying to keep training different and exciting just to keep him focussed. Given the opportunity he would rather charge around like a prat and play the jester, or go and hunt squirrels.

Have I got what I expected? So far the German is very similar to the HWV in most ways and I have answered my two faults of the HWV, he's certainly more laid back, less highly strung and doesn't give a monkeys about rain and cold. The degree of his prey drive has surprised me which will be great if harnessed but could easily become an issue if not and I think he's going to take much longer to mature than the HWV.

The car analogy is probably a good one. If an HWV is an BMW then the GWP is a Ferrari. Not as comfortable but ultimately more capable if you can drive it properly. Not for anyone who has just got their licence.

Hope this helps anyone considering their options as far as these two breeds are concerned.


View attachment 261134

Worcestershire variety by any chance?

 

[NigelM]

Worcestershire variety by any chance?

Yes he is…

 

[fresh slots]

I have a GWP, I have seen everything you describe. I would add mine is as kind as you like with people and the kids have crawled all over her without a grumpy response. If another dog steps out of line in her view ( a paw on her back- is a usual offence) and she well and truly puts them in their place, some times walks away and decides the lesson hasn’t been learned, and goes back for a second pop.
You have a beautiful dog, enjoy the journey.

 

[fallowfellow]

 

[fallowfellow]

Very similar yours in all respects!

 

[Jon P]

Once you get the GWP’s under your skin it is hard to get away from them, this is my third GWP, she is now 2 years old and the hardest dog I have had to train, however I would not have it any other way. I can see a slight glimmer that she is now calming down a bit

 

[Ryan Malcolm]

Very interesting

 

[brobough]

This hit home for me! Our GWP is also 10 months and is nothing but challenging. He’s so incredibly smart, great nose on him and really capable… but getting him to channel that is another story. We’ve been working with a gundog trainer who knows the breed and he’s said if he could get a Lab of the same age to do the things our GWP is doing then he’d be a very happy man… HOWEVER… day to day it’s an uphill battle. My husband recently ruptured his Achilles which meant training took a back seat which didn’t help but my goodness. To put it bluntly: this is our first and last. No doubt they are a powerful, beautiful, intelligent dog but not for the faint hearted or short on time. We’ve advertised him about 3 times since we brought him home at 8 weeks so much is the challenge!

 

[Jon P]

They can be challenging , I am on my 3rd GWP now, if the latest had been the first I would probably be thinking the same about future purchases. However I would not be without on now. They can vary so much in temperament and steadiness.
1, First on I had got at 6 months old, never been out of the kennel it was born in. (Bought to save it basically). She was a very large GWP very aggressive to humans she did not know, would pull a fallow doe down without it even being shot , but was fairly easy to train. I used to also do terrier work at the time. She was exceptional at foxes but the terriers had to give her a wide berth in kennels. She was with me for 14 years.
2. Second bought as a 15 week old pup, sweetest dog you could ever have, she was self trained, works deer well and works with hawks. She is 11 years old now.
3. Third bought at 9 weeks old , her mother is used to run with two bull greyhounds on the hills. Pup is now 2 years old, she has an extremely high prey drive, no self preservation and will crash into anything in the way. her concentration span is measured in minutes and even putting a collar can be a drama as it gets so excited with life. She is being used as a deer dog since she was 8 months old , she is coming on well though and had some very good recovery’s so far, I can see she is calming down now as she matures

 

[ryanmachen]

Iv an 8 month old GWP dog an my first HPR in all honesty I knew he’d be a prick to start with i put plenty of time in to him playing and retrieving trying to put manners in him but miss a day or two and it’s like Beirut in house he’s crackers but what a experience. Iv not put him on anything yet but he stalks in to rabbits birds on his own but comes straight back most of the time to the whistle it’s ace I love it!

 

[ryanmachen]

Iv an 8 month old GWP dog an my first HPR in all honesty I knew he’d be a prick to start with i put plenty of time in to him playing and retrieving trying to put manners in him but miss a day or two and it’s like Beirut in house he’s crackers but what a experience. Iv not put him on anything yet but he stalks in to rabbits birds on his own but comes straight back most of the time to the whistle it’s ace I love it!

I’d like to take it all back today he’s:
~ eaten one of my flip flops
~ i left baby gate open he’s gone up stairs and ****ed on my toddler’s bed again twice in 3 days
~ dug a massive hole in garden in all fairness he got the mole
~ escaped in to field again to eat/lick a dead hare flat out refused to come back to the whistle had to drag him the dickhead
hard graft this at times.

 

[Jon P]

I’d like to take it all back today he’s:
~ eaten one of my flip flops
~ i left baby gate open he’s gone up stairs and ****ed on my toddler’s bed again twice in 3 days
~ dug a massive hole in garden in all fairness he got the mole
~ escaped in to field again to eat/lick a dead hare flat out refused to come back to the whistle had to drag him the dickhead
hard graft this at times.

 

[brobough]

Why is this so familiar

 

[Auroch]

This hit home for me! Our GWP is also 10 months and is nothing but challenging. He’s so incredibly smart, great nose on him and really capable… but getting him to channel that is another story. We’ve been working with a gundog trainer who knows the breed and he’s said if he could get a Lab of the same age to do the things our GWP is doing then he’d be a very happy man… HOWEVER… day to day it’s an uphill battle. My husband recently ruptured his Achilles which meant training took a back seat which didn’t help but my goodness. To put it bluntly: this is our first and last. No doubt they are a powerful, beautiful, intelligent dog but not for the faint hearted or short on time. We’ve advertised him about 3 times since we brought him home at 8 weeks so much is the challenge!

I’d say your experience is pretty close to mine - he caused so much strife in the house in the first year I wished I‘d listened to the ‘just get a lab’ folk. However, at the age of 3, he has now become an exceptionally loyal dog who takes all challenges in his stride - works well on pheasants, tracks and indicates deer well, has been used for cani-cross and agility work by my wife and clocked up 40km on the hill last weekend carrying panniers while Munro bagging. He is currently being used as a climbing frame by my one year-old daughter who he adores. He can still have his moments but I know many of these are down to inconstancies between how my wife and I manage him, or down to poor training input from me, but generally we’re able to predict situations when he’s going to be a dick and do something to preempt it….most of the time.

 

[brobough]

I’d say your experience is pretty close to mine - he caused so much strife in the house in the first year I wished I‘d listened to the ‘just get a lab’ folk. However, at the age of 3, he has now become an exceptionally loyal dog who takes all challenges in his stride - works well on pheasants, tracks and indicates deer well, has been used for cani-cross and agility work by my wife and clocked up 40km on the hill last weekend carrying panniers while Munro bagging. He is currently being used as a climbing frame by my one year-old daughter who he adores. He can still have his moments but I know many of these are down to inconstancies between how my wife and I manage him, or down to poor training input from me, but generally we’re able to predict situations when he’s going to be a dick and do something to preempt it….most of the time.

You read my mind! Beginning to fear we are becoming the “should have got a black Lab and called it a day” folk! Phew 2 years to go then haha!

 

[NigelM]

This thread should be made compulsory reading for anyone thinking about getting a GWP. Some really good honest input.

“Characters” they certainly are

 

[Norfolk Horn]

GWP sound like owning a proper working terrier but bigger
I have a working terrier and two HWV so speak from experience

 

[brobough]

It’s the UK Kennel Club breed description that really cracks me up…

Characteristics
Powerful, strong, versatile hunting dog, excels in both field and water. Loyal, intelligent, sound temperament and alert.

Temperament
Gentle, affectionate and even tempered. Alert, biddable and very loyal.

“Biddable” ?? … ?? … as he runs around the field only coming by just slightly out of reach to taunt me as I try and get him back into the car

 

[Tis1979]

great looking gwp Nigel and a good honest review.

 

[McKenzie]

I currently have a GWP & on occasions I've even enjoyed it. A more bloodthirsty dog would be hard to imagine with mammals but yet he'll bring me birds back alive & without a tooth-mark on it & is a delight around people, children & other dogs (although the dog part of that took a bit of work). I'll be back to GSP's after this one.