Keys not stored at home ?

[weblyish]

With the proposed warrantless entry coming up I've been wondering what happens if the police come but you physically can't show them your guns

I know it's always been a thing anyway that the police can come and ask to inspect the guns so.mayve not much will change on that front anyway . But I don't usually have my keys in the house.

I have a safe at work to which I have the only access so store my keys there. I don't get out that regularly it's not an issue to pick them up when I want them.

Started when my kids were teenage. They are not idiots and both know how to safely handle guns but they have friends come round and might want to show off and teenagers can have mental health issues etc. my house is only so big with so many secret spots. they seemed safer to me in a different location

I could potentially get access to work in the middle of the night but it would require waking several people up - better than them drilling the cabinet I suppose

 

[DaveNeal]

starting with the oblig IANAL -

is it this - section 2.9 of Recommended changes to firearms licensing: government response (accessible)

if you cant show them the guns on your ticket I'd suspect you'd be committing an offense - although the above isnt to show, it's to seize. tbh, I understand the intent but thats a fairly wide scope - theres a supposed riot being organized, "best go get all the guns chaps", never seen again ...... bit extreme but .......

I keep my keys in another safe ( all be it a very small and probably quite easy to smash into tbh ) and I have that hidden.

funnily enough my SPARES I keep at work.

good luck !

 

[Morkai]

I'm not telling either of you where I keep mine!

 

[wytonpjs]

I seem to recall one of the more vivacious field sport channels carrying a story of the police team arriving with angle grinders and cutting their way into a cabinet - same method needed if the FAC holder was uncooperative I suspect.

 

[gixer1]

I seem to recall one of the more vivacious field sport channels carrying a story of the police team arriving with angle grinders and cutting their way into a cabinet - same method needed if the FAC holder was uncooperative I suspect.

Yup, this very thing I have seen -a friend and a member of this forum died, I was supposed to have a renewed interview the next day so called the FEO to cancel when I told him why he wanted to meet at the deceased persons house that day to retrieve the firearms - he came equipped with a grinder however by that point I had found the keys.

There is no room for wiggle in some FEO’s minds, so saying you don’t have the keys won’t stop a thing, it just means you’ll have damaged cabinets and guns when they cut them open!

 

[HonestJohn]

If you want ‘rights’ to gun ownership, leave the U.K.

 

[Dunwaters]

The devil will be in the details. We have a law which entitles Gardai to call and inspect your firearms and security arrangements without a search warrant, however they have no right to demand entry ( without a warrant) at any time.
We are within our rights to refuse entry if the call doesn’t suit and ask them to call again later or make an appointment.
There have been a couple of cases where Gardai insisted that they had the right to demand entry and effectively forced their way into the home, none of these has resulted in a court case so far, so the issue remains unresolved.

 

[User00056]

With the proposed warrantless entry coming up I've been wondering what happens if the police come but you physically can't show them your guns

I've been wondering why more isn't being done by our shooting organisations to fight this outright abuse of power and insult. Quite frankly, I find this absolutely appalling. Just because we own firearms does not preclude us from the rights the rest of society enjoys.

And incidentally, three weeks later I have yet to hear back from my MP

 

[Deerhunter22]

question to everyone ?
What does this do for your legal cover insurance ?
Before legal cover didn’t cover if you willingly handed them over. Which puts you in a rock between a hard place anyways but now does your legal cover mean nothing ?

 

[Tazz]

I have electronic keypad on all mine so less of an issue regarding keys

 

[weblyish]

I have electronic keypad on all mine so less of an issue regarding keys

I guess this just made me realise that not having the keys with me is the same as me not being at home

if you are not home they can't get at the the guns without cracking the cabinet

What's the difference if I am at home but can't open it

 

[Tazz]

I guess this just made me realise that not having the keys with me is the same as me not being at home

if you are not home they can't get at the the guns without cracking the cabinet

What's the difference if I am at home but can't open it

In the same way as your partners/wives should not have access to the cabinets if the police come on a day you are not in then they should not expect to gain access to the guns. In the event you are there but the key are at another site I see that as “ double” safe as opposed to an issue

 

[weblyish]

In the same way as your partners/wives should not have access to the cabinets if the police come on a day you are not in then they should not expect to gain access to the guns. In the event you are there but the key are at another site I see that as “ double” safe as opposed to an issue

That's what it feels like to me.


But I have visions of the police being less than entirely friendly if i say I can't open it

 

[Jh1986]

Hypothetically speaking, if my guns were accessible with a code, if I'm not there then I'm certainly not reading the code out to anyone. Even if they claim to be the FEO or firearms team.

Anyone could potentially con their way in and start asking for access. Especially given this new power.

I'm fully compliant and have no issues showing it, however I'm going to be just as picky in wanting confirmation you are who you say you are.

 

[Dunwaters]

That's what it feels like to me. But I have visions of the police being less than entirely friendly if i say I can't open it

It’s not very difficult to come up with scenarios where immediate access to your firearms is not possible.
If you have been killed in an accident would it be reasonable for the police to invade the home of your bereaved family before the funeral?
If you are not at home would it be reasonable for the police to insist on access and forcibly open your cabinet?
It’s a bit of a minefield once you open up the option.

 

[Tazz]

That's what it feels like to me.


But I have visions of the police being less than entirely friendly if i say I can't open it

That’s not what I would say, I would say I can open it but I have to go through my two part safety process which is retrieve the keys first. You are not denying them access you are just taking them through your “ process”

 

[weblyish]

It’s not very difficult to come up with scenarios where immediate access to your firearms is not possible.
If you have been killed in an accident would it be reasonable for the police to invade the home of your bereaved family before the funeral?
If you are not at home would it be reasonable for the police to insist on access and forcibly open your cabinet?
It’s a bit of a minefield once you open up the option.

This happened to my uncles family. I needed to do an emergency run over and collect his shotguns immediately or the police were taking them.

His body was still in the hospice

(Shhh, but the keys were hanging on the key hook inside the front door where they lived and everyone knew it)

 

[Dunwaters]

This happened to my uncles family. I needed to do an emergency run over and collect his shotguns immediately or the police were taking them.

His body was still in the hospice

(Shhh, but the keys were hanging on the key hook inside the front door where they lived and everyone knew it)

I personally think that that is both unreasonable and unnecessary.
It would not be tolerated here.
I doubt that it would have happened or been tolerated had your uncle belonged to a creed which demands early interment or cremation either.

 

[finnbear270]

Scenario; You are away stalking / fishing whatever, they rock up, demand entry, Missus complies .............. then freaks as they set fire to the carpet with the grinder.

 

[shakey jake]

Put an asbestos warning sticker on the cabinet.