level two with the BDS for £492 for two days.

[baguio]

Incorrect facts highseat shooting for a level two do count ,if your posting on here at least put down credible facts. I have clarified this at the AW briefing, in a couple of scenarios ie when your level two client is disabled or within an area which is unsuitable ie unsafe to stalk and take a shot at ground level ie urban areas community woodlands in built up areas .

Here we go again WS. You pick me up and yet I have ignored the numerous times when you have provided incorrect information (and as a claimed AW too). The last one being on the subject of Whether ICR's can be counted from a period prior to DSC2 registration. You said no but the correct answer is YES IT CAN. (Please no more of your rude PM's).

Now back to the subject in hand and copied straight off the DMQ website:
The candidate shoots a deer from a high seat so cannot be signed off for PC 1.5 which requires evidence that the candidate can “locate and approach a deer to a distance where a safe and effective shot can be taken…” However, later in the day another deer is successfully located and stalked (there may be no intention of shooting it), PC 1.5 can then be signed off.

If the above information is incorrect then it's a new one on me and really is devaluing the qualification. However I read as is printed! As regarding shooting in a built up area so had to use a high seat then I would say Tough and go to a different ground to get witnessed. High seat stalking to qualify for level 2 is not different from shooting deer in a deer farm to get qualified IMO. Regarding being disabled then that's another matter but are stalkers who are c##p at stalking going to turn up with a doctors certificate to allow them to miss that part of the assessment? If that is the case the list of PC's that someone might be able to avoid doing could go on and on! (the doctor says I am unfit to do that part so please just sign it off!)

One of us is clearly wrong on this. I wonder which one?

Odd that at least one other person picked this up but you chose to quote me isn't it?

Happy new year to one and all
Baguio

 

[baguio]

No, sorry!

Baguio

 

[baguio]

Baguio did you not see my reply a couple of posts later.

Nutty

No, Sorry

Baguio

 

[6pointer]

Baguio WS is correct high seats can count and have I witnessed them and may I point out that information on your portfolio up to the time it arrives through your door dose count but most times It will discredited as being of no proof eg you could write what ever you want. But the three ICR,s needed as proof start after you receive your portfolio not before you then have a set time in which to complete them.
Deer Farm shooting or canned hunting as some call it for some is the only way they can shoot deerstalking wild deer is totally different and I am sure that's why Best Practice is real called WDBP.Wild deer best practice.

http://www.snh.gov.uk/land-and-sea/managing-wildlife/managing-deer/best-practice/

 

[baguio]

But the three ICR,s needed as proof start after you receive your portfolio not before you then have a set time in which to complete them.

Not true 6pointer. It's been flogged to death recently. The date starts from the date of the first ICR. IE if the first ICR was dated 6 months before the DSC2 portfolio was issued you would have 30 months to submit it and not the 36 you would otherwise have had.
The forms are all downloadable off the website and provided they're witnessed and signed correctly they count! As from an assessor on here.
http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co....all-with-a-three-year-registration-slot/page2

Baguio

 

[Mr. Gain]

Returning to the original topic...

I am unable to see why creating a more readily completable package for DSC2 that enables/encourages more people to attain a higher level of training than at present is a bad thing.

The most likely outcome is that a fair few stalkers will have more knowledge and experience than they otherwise would, whilst the "old and bold" will unquestionably still be as sage and wise as they ever were before the world went to hell in a handcart.

 

[JC275]

Baguio WS is correct high seats can count and have I witnessed them and may I point out that information on your portfolio up to the time it arrives through your door dose count but most times It will discredited as being of no proof eg you could write what ever you want. But the three ICR,s needed as proof start after you receive your portfolio not before you then have a set time in which to complete them.
Deer Farm shooting or canned hunting as some call it for some is the only way they can shoot deerstalking wild deer is totally different and I am sure that's why Best Practice is real called WDBP.Wild deer best practice.

http://www.snh.gov.uk/land-and-sea/managing-wildlife/managing-deer/best-practice/

Can't be bothered to correct you on the high seat or start date because it has all been covered before and, to be honest, life is too short but I have to ask where you are getting your reference to farmed deer from? This opportunity clearly relates to park deer and anyone who is not aware of the difference clearly has a big gap in their overall knowledge of the deer situation in Great Britain which is a shame as there are some very good introductory courses available.

 

[6pointer]

JC275 I also cannot be bothered replying or writing anything but find I have done. David Goffin might help with the high seat situation. Or are we really saying that if you are not fully able you cant sit an examination.
You are a BDS man we all know that so if they say it is ok to shoot semi tame deer then it must be .I feel its wrong to shoot canned deer unless its for welfare reasons or (to many in the one area). Deer shot in an area even a 500 hec site if they cant get out I personally feel its wrong to use these deer to assess some ones standards.
The gap you call it in my knowledge regards park and farm deer is correct we have a deer farm just up the road it is 400 hec what's the difference please explain.

 

[baguio]

I have nothing at all against disabled people stalking (They should be positively encouraged to take part in everything everyone else can) but obtaining a different DSC2 to the one everyone else has achieved doesn't seem right to me (shooting from high seats).
If someone wanted to obtain DSC1 but was mentally disabled and therefore not clever enough would BDS be forced to make the exam easier so that they could pass too?
We're all different and possess different abilities. We're not all able to be brain surgeons, premiership footballers or the next Prime Minister. That's how it is. It's no ones fault. It's just how we made and we all have to make the best of what we were given. However you can't move the goal posts in everything so that everyone can obtain the same qualifications, can you?
Baguio

 

[6pointer]

Baguio we live in a world were every one is equal I teach people to drive and some are disabled they sit tests in a cars that are adapted they have a different test to able bodied people longer more help as long as it dose not interfere with safety.
When I contacted DMQ I was told they had no problem with it reason if they need to shoot from a high seat then that's what they will always do. If you sit your test in an Automatic car then you still can drive but only an Automatic one.
This takes us on a different curve so I will leave it at that.

 

[paul o']

So glad you are ok with us disabled shooters being able to go stalking , i will be doing my dsc and later 2 more or less due to having to to use the BASC Arran and kent grounds i have been stalking for most of the teenage and adult life and was an able body shooter only 4 years ago,now 54 years old , i for one would not like to be given something that is not the same as others (mental ) don't think my force would give a cert on that disability lol

I have nothing at all against disabled people stalking (They should be positively encouraged to take part in everything everyone else can) but obtaining a different DSC2 to the one everyone else has achieved doesn't seem right to me (shooting from high seats).
If someone wanted to obtain DSC1 but was mentally disabled and therefore not clever enough would BDS be forced to make the exam easier so that they could pass too?
We're all different and possess different abilities but you can't move the goal posts in everything so that everyone can obtain the same qualifications, can you?
Baguio

 

[widows son]

Here we go again WS. You pick me up and yet I have ignored the numerous times when you have provided incorrect information (and as a claimed AW too). The last one being on the subject of Whether ICR's can be counted from a period prior to DSC2 registration. You said no but the correct answer is YES IT CAN. (Please no more of your rude PM's).

Now back to the subject in hand and copied straight off the DMQ website:
The candidate shoots a deer from a high seat so cannot be signed off for PC 1.5 which requires evidence that the candidate can “locate and approach a deer to a distance where a safe and effective shot can be taken…” However, later in the day another deer is successfully located and stalked (there may be no intention of shooting it), PC 1.5 can then be signed off.

If the above information is incorrect then it's a new one on me and really is devaluing the qualification. However I read as is printed! As regarding shooting in a built up area so had to use a high seat then I would say Tough and go to a different ground to get witnessed. High seat stalking to qualify for level 2 is not different from shooting deer in a deer farm to get qualified IMO. Regarding being disabled then that's another matter but are stalkers who are c##p at stalking going to turn up with a doctors certificate to allow them to miss that part of the assessment? If that is the case the list of PC's that someone might be able to avoid doing could go on and on! (the doctor says I am unfit to do that part so please just sign it off!)

One of us is clearly wrong on this. I wonder which one?

Odd that at least one other person picked this up but you chose to quote me isn't it?

Happy new year to one and all
Baguio

Oh here we go again, where are we going Baguio to the truth I believe . One thing I've never done is pass on incorrect information unlike some on this thread.
as for the claimed AW thing I've been a AW since the level two was brought out .

I think Baguio you require to call Nick Lane of DMQ or Dave Goffin of BDS training department. Ask him if you can us a highseat and sign off on this you'll find the answer is yes ,I asked the question due to having two portfolios at the time of disabled people, there were 150 people in the AW briefing at the time all heard me ask the question to both Nick lane and Dave Goffin.

As for a person with mental health or a dyslexic issue anyone supplying any sort of training has to be able to supply and train people from all walks of life no matter what there disability .

I have never sent anyone on this site or any other site a rude email. if I have please contact admin and allow them to deal with it or delete me

 

[baguio]

One thing I've never done is pass on incorrect information unlike some on this thread.

I have never sent anyone on this site or any other site a rude email. if I have please contact admin and allow them to deal with it or delete me

I have quoted the last thread you gave incorrect information on but just for you I will do it again http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co....all-with-a-three-year-registration-slot/page2 post 11.
I think people can therefore make their own opinion on the rest of your post?
Baguio

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

No. Here is the link to the full details: DSC2 Portfolio Evidence Gathering Scheme

This, and the latest issue of DeerBytes, is the first I've read of the new offering. I've not made use of the scheme and don't know the deer park involved, so I can't offer any qualified comments on its suitability or otherwise.

My one observation is that there are plenty of threads on this Site complaining about the time and cost taken to complete DSC2, with all sorts of ideas (smart and otherwise) about how to make it cheaper/quicker/less onerous. I read some of the responses above and it smacks to me of "don't change DSC2 because it will let others become qualified without having access to their own ground". At least so far as I'm aware, having your own ground to stalk on has never been a requirement for DSC2, so why would you want to make it one now?

willie_gunn

My thoughts aswell Dom, no pleasing everybody obviously.

I did my level 2 with three different AW's and was thankfull for it as I learned and chose the best bits of advice freely given after my assessment by each of them.

The BDS course ticks the boxes for those having paid a fortune for numerous stalks and only seen or shot 1 Deer who are disillusioned at costs and out of money, luck and patience.. I initially saw its place and how some people would see this as good for them and their circumstances.

But, imo the modern concept of ever shorter courses because you can learn high proportions of course content behind a computer are not the answer. Somebody proficient enough to pass over the couple of days in a park imo would not get as much from it as somebody that over time had chosen to gain enough experience and chose to take his assessments on a highland stag, woodland fallow, etc. Two people could share the same cert but with a huge diference in knowledge and experience.

In the field over a prolonged period with the right people will give a better and prolonged retention of whats required to put an animal safely into the food chain and a far greater feeling of achievement than just rushing for the sake of a cert..

How long before somebody offers level 1&2 over a weekend ? sad imo

Don't we choose to take these certs because of our love of deer and deer stalking rather than just another ticket to throw in the drawer of a meaningless but necessary course passed !!

 

[widows son]

I have quoted the last thread you gave incorrect information on but just for you I will do it again http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co....all-with-a-three-year-registration-slot/page2 post 11.
I think people can therefore make their own opinion on the rest of your post?
Baguio

What are you on about.

With a level two you have 3 years from registration to complete your level two, for your reference below is copied from the dmq website. Now if this is wrong DMQ is feeding everyone with the wrong information and there running the show .

But you say I'm wrong . Totally puzzled now .


[TABLE="class: gentable, width: 2"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td"]It is possible to do the 3 culls in a day. However, it is more usual for candidates to do their culls over a period of time, say over one culling season. You have up to 3 years from the date of registration to the final submission of your portfolio. Assessment and verification can take up to 14 weeks from when you submit your portfolio (and may take even longer if, for example, there is evidence missing).[/TD]
[TD="class: td"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Once again, some misleading answers to questions posed!
Highseats can be used in certain circumstances, but NOT because ground is unsuitable or unsafe to stalk and take a shot at ground level ie urban areas community woodlands in built up areas.
If ground is as stated, then it is not a suitable area to complete element 1 of DCS 2 - ie..... Stalk deer! What you may be getting confused with, is that is acceptable to stalk to a high seat which already has deer in range of it, then climb it to make the shot safer! Anything else is NOT stalking deer! 'Deer man' on here actually did this on a DSC 2 stalk with me. He got in range of a group of Fallow feeding in a field, but being Suffolk, the shot would have been quite flat and towards a nearby village. He therefore chose to stalk down the hedge and along another side of the field to a highseat which he then climbed and shot a nice Fallow buck. A good safety decision and perfectly acceptable. He is also now an AW.
We must also make allowances for physically disabled persons who may shoot from fixed positions such as high seats or stationary quad bikes.
I've not yet encountered a mentally disabled DSC 2 candidate though and doubt they would be granted an FAC in the first instance?
MS

 

[Monkey Spanker]

What are you on about.

With a level two you have 3 years from registration to complete your level two, for your reference below is copied from the dmq website. Now if this is wrong DMQ is feeding everyone with the wrong information and there running the show .

But you say I'm wrong . Totally puzzled now .


[TABLE="class: gentable, width: 2"]
[TR]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]It is possible to do the 3 culls in a day. However, it is more usual for candidates to do their culls over a period of time, say over one culling season. You have up to 3 years from the date of registration to the final submission of your portfolio. Assessment and verification can take up to 14 weeks from when you submit your portfolio (and may take even longer if, for example, there is evidence missing).
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

WS, evidence submitted must be less than 3 years old at time of potfolio submission. Evidence prior to registration can be used, but then obviously reduces the 3 year period to 3 years from date of first evidence used. My last candidate did all 3 stalks in one morning prior to DSC 2 registration as he was awaiting funding. Perfectly acceptable.
MS

 

[www.yorkshireroestalking.]

Seems like LEV 2 has lost its meaning and deer parks for shooting deer to me is like shoot pets in a country park .Is it any wonder why people worry about such qualifications.
In my opinion why not make it simulated and stalk a card board cut out.

For once Davie we agree LOL

 

[baguio]

I've not yet encountered a mentally disabled DSC 2 candidate though and doubt they would be granted an FAC in the first instance?
MS

By Mentally disabled I'm meaning a slow learner. Not someone who needs round the clock care. But I'm sure you know what I'm saying.
Regards
Baguio
Ps. Off to a Munty infested beat now to try to top your monster buck!

 

[jamross65]

If you are working towards level 2 then you'd be mad to let the guide take you by the hand and do the gralloch etc. Just going out and doing something repeatedly on your own ground many times does not magically confer proficiency - you might be really good at a really poor gralloch.

You can try to put level 2 up on a pedestal if you chose. Say people should have shot a thousand deer and been shooting for 30 years.

It's all very simple - level one is the theory. Level 2 is the practical expression of that. If we are putting venison into the food chain it should be to level 2 standard. It's a massive disservice to the consumer buying the venison otherwise. It's not a magical climax of your stalking career, you're just showing you can do it right 3 times in front of someone who can. Level 2 is a basic level.

Correct Apache...

What difference does the time between getting both qualifications make? The candidate may have been out twice in that year between level 1 and trying for level 2 and there is no way of monitoring that.

Why try and make out that obtaining a level of competence is any more than exactly that? It's not a bloody medal earned through blood sweat and tears, although from some stories I've heard about folk getting ripped off in trying to obtain Level2 over months and months with the same guide, there may well have been tears. And that's another reason why some will take up an offer like this. A fixed price over two days to complete something, that I know for a fact cost one guy £3000 and he still didn't complete it before he moved to a more reputable witness...

Nutty, if you take a witness with you to your ground, where are you going to take him to try for your 3 stalks over the following weeks? The area you mention this almost guaranteed high seat sits, or a wander all over where its hit and miss baring in mind your paying him daily for his expenses? You would do what I would do and take him straight to the area of the high seat. Some folk may only have a piece of ground big enough to accommodate one high seat yet shoot 30 deer a year off it. Is that any more challenging than walking into a 2000 acre park? The level 2 is not obtained based on difficulty of the stalk...