Neck Tension during reloading process

[nun_hunter]

So as not to interfere with the other thread on neck tension I thought I'd start a new one specific to the question I'm asking.

I have a load that shoots well in my .308 but if I now decided to use a Lee FCD would I need to go back to the drawing board in regards to the other variables I have already worked on and came up with good results? ie powder charge and seating depth? Also how do I decide on what neck tension works best? Try a few different settings (1/4 turn deeper increments etc) or just try one and vary other things?

I am also developing a load for my .222 which is proving difficult (I know, .222's are easy to load for!) and one thing I can't really do is alter seating depth as the magazine prevents the round from being anything longer than SAAMI spec and the lands are way too far away to try and get near. A couple of factory brands of ammo shoot better than all my reloads, maybe because they're crimped?? In this scenario where would I start the crimping along with other factors? Crimp all rounds the same at different charge weights or pick a charge weight and crimp at varying degrees of tension?

A lot of questions and more answers than I probably need at the moment but I do like to know as much as possible before I start tampering with things!

 

[Muir]

If the cases are trimmed to a uniform length and you are not already rubbing hairy elbows with a maximum load, you can crimp without worry. In testing I have many times applied a crimp to a non crimped load for comparison. Now I just go ahead and crimp. It's what the cool kids are doing these days.

In your triple deuce, do you have the parallel sides of the bullet to the base of the neck yet? (The neck shoulder junction?) ~Muir

 

[deeangeo]

If the cases are trimmed to a uniform length and you are not already rubbing hairy elbows with a maximum load, you can crimp without worry ~Muir

This is spot on

Unless I misunderstand, Just develop your .222 load normally, but simply include a crimp in the process.
The crimp won't improve loads that don't work in your rifle, but will ensure much closer muzzle velocity tolerance.
This in turn aids consistency when you do have an accurate load for your rifle.

Simply ensure all your cases are trimmed to same length (within two or three thou.) & use the FC die.

There are many demons to fight in the persuit of consistent accuracy, but crimping is a good addition for equalising variable neck tension.
Good luck.

 

[nun_hunter]

How do you choose the amount of crimp? The Lee instructions indicate depending on how far in the die is screwed you will get a light crimp up to full crimp when the 4 jaws of the collet touch? Is the amount important and is it something you adjust or just go with a "medium" and stick with that?

 

[deeangeo]

How do you choose the amount of crimp? The Lee instructions indicate depending on how far in the die is screwed you will get a light crimp up to full crimp when the 4 jaws of the collet touch? Is the amount important and is it something you adjust or just go with a "medium" and stick with that?

At first I started with light and adjusted somewhat heavier, but found a light crimp to be the best for me.
A heavy crimp I'd say is more for when you want to prevent bullet movement due to a heavier recoil. But you certainly get to a point as you adjust, when the crimp digs into the bullet jacket.
I didn't find that the indent affected the accuracy much or that it spoiled bullet performance, but for me was unnecessary.

It's a trial & error thing, but starting light I'd say is the preferred way.
Others may have a different view.

 

[nun_hunter]

If the cases are trimmed to a uniform length and you are not already rubbing hairy elbows with a maximum load, you can crimp without worry. In testing I have many times applied a crimp to a non crimped load for comparison. Now I just go ahead and crimp. It's what the cool kids are doing these days.

In your triple deuce, do you have the parallel sides of the bullet to the base of the neck yet? (The neck shoulder junction?) ~Muir

Muir I'm loading the Sierra 50 grain SMP and from a quick check theyre pretty close to that point, maybe could go a few thou deeper. The OAL is is 2.100 at the moment.

I'm getting frustrated with it as everyone says how easy to load the .222 is and how accurate a chambering it is that was one of the reasons for choosing one. I've had a few good groups out of it but very inconsistent. One powder/weight/bullet combo will shoot well in testing but then on further testing the groups are 3x bigger this has happened on a couple of combos now.

 

[Muir]

Muir I'm loading the Sierra 50 grain SMP and from a quick check theyre pretty close to that point, maybe could go a few thou deeper. The OAL is is 2.100 at the moment.

I'm getting frustrated with it as everyone says how easy to load the .222 is and how accurate a chambering it is that was one of the reasons for choosing one. I've had a few good groups out of it but very inconsistent. One powder/weight/bullet combo will shoot well in testing but then on further testing the groups are 3x bigger this has happened on a couple of combos now.

That would be frustrating indeed. No need to seat the bullet deeper at that OAL. You could, but there is no need. You are making the best of that nice long neck. As was mentioned by the other resident heretic, Deeangeo, crimping will make for a more consistent extreme spread and standard deviation. This is not always a guarantee of accuracy, generally speaking, but it will help with the numbers a chronograph would generate. I crimp everything. The amount of crimp is up to you: You can only crimp so far as the collet that provides the crimp closes at some point preventing further crimping. The kind of bullet i'm using determines the amount of crimp as well. Light skinned varmint bullets will be crimped harder (deeper) than a bullet with a heavier jacket with the same amount of pressure. My Hornet loads with a 34 - 35 gr HP have a pronounced turning of the case mouth into the jacket. They shoot sub half MOA. It is almost impossible to crimp too heavily with the FCD. If I could impose a thought, you might try using a Lee Universal Expander Die to gently expand the case mouth just enough to get the base of of the bullet started into the case. This has really cut group sizes in my small bores and additionally, provides a visual reference for crimping. I turn the crimper in until the 'flare' is gone. From then on I am actually crimping. It gives me a datum point for crimping (1/4 turn from straight, half turn, etc) They make tools for measuring the amount of crimp you apply with the FCD but you will be doing it by feel soon enough.

All that said, I will get down off of my crimping soap box and say that groups that go from good to three inches are likely not to be helped by crimping. Something is rotten in Denmark and it's smells of something ...mechanical. I'm sure that bedding and scope tracking are under control (right?) are you cleaning often? (If so, stop.) Start noting where the good groups come in a shooting session. What was happening before a shot ruined the beginnings of a group. Evaluate again the hold, etc. Sounds silly but I was about to use my Browning BAR 30-06 for a tomato stake after three months of mediocre groups before I just decided to try changing everything about the way I held the rifle on the bag and on my shoulder. When I switched from a uniform front and rear grip to holding the gun to my shoulder with rearward pressure on the fore end and simply remaining neutral with the trigger hand, my groups went to a consistent MOA and less. It was suddenly spared life as a garden implement. (The gun still has a crappy trigger but I know it's at least accurate.) Now you'd expect that none of this would be necessary with a Triple Deuce but some guns want things their way. Like women, they all like to be held and caressed differently. Try crimping first, then start a revaluation process. I am really interested in your 222 situation. Any chance you could post pics of your groups from the next shooting session, with the load data?? ~Muir

 

[nun_hunter]

Thanks for that reply Muir, very helpful. I will dig out all the pictures I have and will add them here, start a new thread or could email them to you. Very frustrating as everyone else seems to have no trouble with the .222