New Knife and Firearms law

[BEAR1]

I see this new law that came out today. I know it will probably not affect most people on here , but was surprised that it has not been mentioned unless I have just missed it. I knew about the antique guns.

Ban on knives, firearms and offensive weapons comes into force

A tough ban on a wide range of knives, weapons, and firearms comes into force today as part of government action to tackle violent crime and serious violence.

www.gov.uk

 

[andyk]

It has been covered a fair amount on here, someone shared a letter from the NRA yesterday about the ban on possession of MARS etc rifles coming into effect later today.

It is a load of bull£&!t though (pardon my French), and I quote:

'Cyclone knives, spiral knives and ‘rapid-fire’ rifles are among those covered by the ban, all of which have been associated with serious violence in communities across the country.'

I'm not aware of a MARS/lever release rifle being used in any crime in the U.K., they are being banned as they are thought to be too close to a semi for the governments liking but there has been no event to trigger the regulation.

As much as I see no point in owning a zombie knife, it doesn't do anything a kitchen knife can't and so the entire legislation is mere tokenism.

 

[Liveonce]

Quote

Home Secretary Priti Patel said:

There is no place in our society for violent crime and harm caused by such knives and firearms. Lives have been lost through serious violence, and this ban will help save lives by getting more knives and other weapons off the streets and out of the hands of violent criminals.

The human suffering and hurt caused by the tragic loss of life through violent crime is unacceptable, which is why the government will stop at nothing to give the police the powers needed to stop violent crime and protect the public.

From today, anyone possessing one of these deadly weapons unlawfully will face the full force of the law.


“Caused” so how many MARS rifles have been used in violent crime?

As for knives impossible to stop access to a lethal knife, screwdrivers are very popular also and legal to carry.

Makes one weep at the direction this country is heading with the idiots we have in Government, banning this that or the other just because they can, because it’s very much easier to do, compared with dealing with the human issues that result in violent crime.

 

[Heym SR20]

And I do wonder how many legally held "Rapid Fire" rifles have actually been used in Criminal Activities over the last few years.

I really don't count legally held firearms that have been obtained illegally (ie criminals have used them after they have been stolen etc) and legally held firearms when included in crime statistics.

 

[TH4]

Another crap piece of legislation that will have no effect on the groups of people committing the crimes but sounds to the general public like the government are doing something. More of Pritti Patels smoke and mirrors

 

[enfieldspares]

I surrendered back some time ago my Monadnock baton and one of those "executive letter openers" aka "any non-metal knife other than a ceramic kitchen or catering knife". I had the money within two weeks or so of the surrender.

 

[JTO]

Without more stop and search, this is pointless.

 

[NullMac]

“Caused” so how many MARS rifles have been used in violent crime?

They have not.

Someone ****ed me off on another forum you all know so I made an FOI request to the Home Office for a specific breakdown on firearms crime. I forget the exact numbers but I think it covered the last 10 years and here were a few points:

Half of all "firearms" crime was related to airgun and bb guns.

Of the other half 80% of it related to handguns. Obvious issues there that I don't need to point out.

The other stuff had the odd machine pistol but was mainly shotgun related. Sawn-off is still popular apparently.

There was 1 (one) instance of an offence with a rifle and it was not fired.

The individual in question on the other forum was honking about the proposed 50 cal ban and was just doing the mindless "sign this petition, its not fair" crap, and I challenged him on some numbers. That was too much like hard work so I went and got it for myself. It's actually easily accessible, does not need an FOI, but I struggled to find it wi Google. So I gave him some data to go back and challenge the concept of "risk" around the 50 cal. I heard the 50cal bit got binned 'cos the politicians thought they were banning 50 cal machine guns. Wouldn't surprise me, as I was comparing shooters with an anti terrorism officer in Birmingham Airport one day (as you do) and he asked me what pistols I owned !

Irrespective of the incompetent tory crap that comes from Patel, MARS were obviously banned as they effectively subvert the semi auto ban.

 

[NullMac]

I really don't count legally held firearms that have been obtained illegally (ie criminals have used them after they have been stolen etc) and legally held firearms when included in crime statistics.

Well you should, because that is a direct reflection of the effectiveness of our licensing and security requirements or otherwise. Therefore it is the relevant bit to us.

 

[catzrob]

As much as I see no point in owning a zombie knife, it doesn't do anything a kitchen knife can't and so the entire legislation is mere tokenism.

Much as I abhor ban-happy fascists telling me what to do, I can see how banning zombie knives and other edged weapons that are perceived as cool might reduce crime. People who would have no interest in a functional blade on a hi-viz handle will buy a zombie knife to brandish thinking it will make them look "ard", leading to more knives in the, er, ecosystem. If you have more knives out and about, more people will get cut with them.

Obviously the gov. shouldn't be making decisions based on such thinking any more than they should for political points. They should look for evidence as to whether the availability of zombie knives leads to a rise in knife crime: if it does, they should consider banning the knives (balancing the need to respect individual freedoms against the impact on levels of crime); if it doesn't they should not even consider a change of law.

Reacting to the Daily Mail should not be on the list of reasons to change a law.

 

[sunndog]

Apart from the zombie knives effectively being a ban on paint and green paracord I think they dont like them because it smacks of trying to get a loophole for the ban on "advertising in a way that may incite violence" from the battle orders 1997 ban (think it was 1997?)

 

[catzrob]

Well you should, because that is a direct reflection of the effectiveness of our licensing and security requirements or otherwise. Therefore it is the relevant bit to us.

I agree with this - if a particular category of stolen legal firearms are preponderant in crime statistics that indicates they're particularly attractive to steal and it's therefore arguable they should be viewed differently by the law - but your other post seems to indicate that pretty much all gun crime is (in descending order of prevalence)

• air/spring weapons
• handguns
• shotguns (esp. sawn-off)
• machine pistols

If that's the case there doesn't seem to be any harm from rifles, inc MARS etc., so why ban them?

NB this is a genuine question not picking a fight.

 

[enfieldspares]

Irrespective of the incompetent tory crap that comes from Patel, MARS were obviously banned as they effectively subvert the semi auto ban.

Well my reply would be that there must have been some very forward looking people in the 1950s as MARS type rifles date from that era at least.

 

[Morkai]

What is a MARS?

 

[cjm1066]

The greatest benefit of this sort of ban is the reassurance that while passing the legislation, the politicians weren't doing anything more absurd.

It also allows the free press to demonstrate their inability to deliver journalism with any objective content. A bandwagon that the Police happily join.

Since the advent of sliced bread what lawful reason is their to own a bread knife - I will duck now

 

[Sampo]

Unless the 'stop and search' powers are increased and prosecuted to its full extent, doubt if there will be much changes in the crime across the capital. A collector having a zombie knife or antique firearm on the wall or in the security of their home isn't the one who usually results in causing damage to the society. For those who cause harm to others by means of terror, doubt if they care between their right to carry a kitchen knife or screwdriver or even a sharpened pencil, all of which can cause some damage based on how its used.

Personally I believe organised crime needs to be tackled better and those caught locked up until they have a really long time to think about it, doubt if much is going to change. Reduced sentence, letting them off with a warning, not deporting serious criminals because they have a pet cat etc will only give away the wrong message which gets milked to its full extent. Unless the problems within the society is taken care of and everyone gets a quality of life, laws like this are knee jerk reactions treating the symptoms with no long term benefit.

Current law seems to aid the malicious actors while putting the law abiding citizen at a disadvantage.

 

[Morkai]

So I take it open assist knives with the spring removed are still legal.

 

[JTO]

When asked why the handgun ban had not resulted in a reduction in gun crime, a senior police officer said: "We didn't expect it to",

 

[sunndog]

What is a MARS?

Manually activated release system (lever release)

 

[WellieP]

But how can I tell if the knives I make, own or sell are Zombie knives or not? Absolutely hilarious! Given that Zombies are fictional, and therefore don’t exist, how can Zombie knives exist as a functional thing?

Personally I’m not mourning the loss of MARS rifles as it seemed like a fairly pointless work around that looked like it offered a firearm that would actually not be as fun to shoot as a .22LR semi auto which we can own anyway (unless I’m misunderstanding the law). I feel like making rifles that deliberately rub up against legislation is just asking for a heavy handed response from the government. But then I’m not a target shooter so perhaps I’m missing something.