new rifle/scope
- Thread starter 270TOMMY
- Start date
MarkH said:Just did a fag packet calculation and that 7mm bullet had about 153 cm drop on a cold barrel 22 deg upwards 420m shot.
Interesting
Mark
Agree with the thoughts on long range shooting - but sometimes, terrain dictates. If the wind is still, trajectory is a given. Ballistic reticules will can make medium range shooting much more predictable.
From your link, I note that the shooter made a single lethal shot at 460 and that as is usual - the hard work started once the shot had been fired!
Rgds Ian
MarkH
Well-Known Member
Hi WSM300
Its not got a lot to do with the fatal target area as such but the effects of wind and range estimation errors once past 250m. Windage and drop make no difference at 40m but a 10m error in range estimation at 450 is 6cm additional drop. Windage in a gentle breeze if 1 m/s is 10 cm. All these factors compound on long range shooting where they dont on short.
Yes its down to the individual but some people I know talk better than they shoot and its muggins who has to go looking for it in the dark.
IanF
The chance of him making that shot successful was 100% guaranteed as he would not have posted it if he had wounded or missed the animal. Some hunters will learn from the mistake (ie the lost trophy or possible lost mountain climber trying to retrieve it) and think twice before repeating a shot like that others think it is really down to their great marksmanship skill and then blame the hunting gods when it goes wrong next time.
Ho Hum
Mark
Its not got a lot to do with the fatal target area as such but the effects of wind and range estimation errors once past 250m. Windage and drop make no difference at 40m but a 10m error in range estimation at 450 is 6cm additional drop. Windage in a gentle breeze if 1 m/s is 10 cm. All these factors compound on long range shooting where they dont on short.
Yes its down to the individual but some people I know talk better than they shoot and its muggins who has to go looking for it in the dark.
IanF
The chance of him making that shot successful was 100% guaranteed as he would not have posted it if he had wounded or missed the animal. Some hunters will learn from the mistake (ie the lost trophy or possible lost mountain climber trying to retrieve it) and think twice before repeating a shot like that others think it is really down to their great marksmanship skill and then blame the hunting gods when it goes wrong next time.
Ho Hum
Mark
I love this thread its so funny! You know that thing at the end of the barrel, you know the deer thingy. Well you can argue about the science behind long range shooting till the cows come home, it won't help the deer slipping over its own guts as it tries to run away.
Sorry I may be missing the point or I may be reading from 'www.back door sniper.com!'
Deer management gentlemen...deer management!
Sorry I may be missing the point or I may be reading from 'www.back door sniper.com!'
Deer management gentlemen...deer management!
MarkH
Well-Known Member
Hi Guys
While I was mountain biking with my alsatians last week near Coventry I had to take a pic of this strange object. I cant imagine what it is but down wind I caught a faint wiff of malt whiskety and salty old shag
On a more serious note I have to shoot at 200m to 250m in Scotland due to the terrain. With limited days I have to take the shot for management purposes whatever the weather/wind/angle. Ballistics too me is great fun especially if you can have bullets custom built. It makes sod all difference 90% of the time but it makes a lot of difference filling in those dark winter evenings mucking about with all those calculators
Mark
While I was mountain biking with my alsatians last week near Coventry I had to take a pic of this strange object. I cant imagine what it is but down wind I caught a faint wiff of malt whiskety and salty old shag
On a more serious note I have to shoot at 200m to 250m in Scotland due to the terrain. With limited days I have to take the shot for management purposes whatever the weather/wind/angle. Ballistics too me is great fun especially if you can have bullets custom built. It makes sod all difference 90% of the time but it makes a lot of difference filling in those dark winter evenings mucking about with all those calculators
Mark
sikamalc
Administrator
Hear Hear Mr B, this is all bull**** on this thread. Are we not stalkers gentlemen, are we not caring for the deers welfare, were is the sense in all this crap of people shooting deer at 400+ yards, its absolute Bo--cks.
I admit there are the very odd times when a long shot is taken, usually by a professional stalker, after a client has gut shot a deer and you need to try and resolve the situation, but this is about the only time I can think of, or perhaps I have missed something over a number of years.
If you need a scope that tells you the range, weather and makes the tea for you, stick to shooting paper targets, because if you really think that it is ethical to shoot deer at extreme ranges, you are not a Stalker. You are just an idiot with a rifle.
I admit there are the very odd times when a long shot is taken, usually by a professional stalker, after a client has gut shot a deer and you need to try and resolve the situation, but this is about the only time I can think of, or perhaps I have missed something over a number of years.
If you need a scope that tells you the range, weather and makes the tea for you, stick to shooting paper targets, because if you really think that it is ethical to shoot deer at extreme ranges, you are not a Stalker. You are just an idiot with a rifle.
MarkH
Well-Known Member
Oh Malc
You cant stop this thread now its getting to be quite fun. I can hand on heart say I have never shot at any animal greater than 240m away. I could not even imagine executing a 100% accurate shot at 400m with a hunting set-up. Even paper shooters wont know where the shot went without a spotter.
I have posted figures hopefully to illustrate that the greater the range the greater other factors build up that your 1" group at 100 is certainly not 4" but more like 16". Not good odds on a 'one shot one kill' motto
Mark
You cant stop this thread now its getting to be quite fun. I can hand on heart say I have never shot at any animal greater than 240m away. I could not even imagine executing a 100% accurate shot at 400m with a hunting set-up. Even paper shooters wont know where the shot went without a spotter.
I have posted figures hopefully to illustrate that the greater the range the greater other factors build up that your 1" group at 100 is certainly not 4" but more like 16". Not good odds on a 'one shot one kill' motto
Mark
Hi MarkH, I know you as a man of integrity and a good stalker. You know what you are talking about and if you and Malcolm say its not a good idea well then I'd take that as gospel!
270Tommy practice your fieldcraft mate save your ammo!
No Mark that wasn't me!
'Black shiny boots'! and was that a Remmy? Nah mate. When I'm out I look like 'sticky the stick insect out on a ghillie suit themed fancy dress party'! 
270Tommy practice your fieldcraft mate save your ammo!
No Mark that wasn't me!
'Black shiny boots'! and was that a Remmy? Nah mate. When I'm out I look like 'sticky the stick insect out on a ghillie suit themed fancy dress party'!
sikamalc
Administrator
Not for me to stop anything on this forum Mark H.
But lets be serious when someone places a post and says I want to buy a 300 win mag to get into long range shooting for Red Deer, well I am sorry they are talking with no respect for the quarry they intend on stalking.
One has to ask what experiance they have of stalking Red Deer? Would they know a yield hind in a group of say 12 animals? or which calf belonged to which hind? at 400 to 450yds they couldnt tell anyway, unless they have a vast amount of experiance, and even then at this distance you would need good spotting and weather conditions. They will also need a good idea of the layout of the ground, and then find an estate with a keeper that is willing to let them play.
Not in my back garden
But lets be serious when someone places a post and says I want to buy a 300 win mag to get into long range shooting for Red Deer, well I am sorry they are talking with no respect for the quarry they intend on stalking.
One has to ask what experiance they have of stalking Red Deer? Would they know a yield hind in a group of say 12 animals? or which calf belonged to which hind? at 400 to 450yds they couldnt tell anyway, unless they have a vast amount of experiance, and even then at this distance you would need good spotting and weather conditions. They will also need a good idea of the layout of the ground, and then find an estate with a keeper that is willing to let them play.
Not in my back garden
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