Renewal application rejected

[Greenmist]

Once again this proves the police don't trust the system that is in place, as a current holder of fac/sgc you have a marker on your records, therefore if the gp has not notified the police of any incident or condition since the marker was put in place, there is no reason to get another medical form filled out.

 

[The Optimist]

The issue has for a while now appeared to be inconsistency in firearms licensing across the country. This is perhaps hardly surprising as we do not have a national police force, rather we have separate constabularies and police services which are increasingly collaborating and merging back office support in the eternal drive for cost and efficiency savings.

My GP charged me £20.00 and completed my health form within 10 days. My GP declared on the form that they have my records “from birth”. My clinical records, as far as I am aware, have not yet been converted to digital. My firearms licensing team received from me all the correctly completed and necessary documentation and payment 3 months and 3 days before my FAC expires. With 2 months to go I have just received an acknowledgment that my “electronic certificate” has been extended and I have been issued a letter with an automatic 8 week extension in case my renewal cannot be processed by the due date.

I think that’s all pretty good so far. The issue seems to be that this is not the norm across the country. I’ll hold my breath and see what happens, but I am pleasantly surprised by the apparent efficiency to date.

 

[DavyG]

Just sent in my coterminus renewal a week ago, and today i got an email from the Met saying that my application was rejected due to my medical proforma not covering a period of minimum 10 years to date.
I'm with my current GP from August 2017 and the previous GP died in the pandemic of corona virus.

Did you provide details of your dead GP on the form…?

 

[ColinJ]

Good job you don't reside in Scotland then as Police Scotland would bin your application for not being their prescribed procedure.

I live in Sussex and the Sussex Police website advises applying 6 months in advance

 

[ColinJ]

Once again this proves the police don't trust the system that is in place, as a current holder of fac/sgc you have a marker on your records, therefore if the gp has not notified the police of any incident or condition since the marker was put in place, there is no reason to get another medical form filled out.

It’s got nothing to do with the police. The statutory guidelines are written by the Home Office.

 

[DavyG]

It’s got nothing to do with the police. The statutory guidelines are written by the Home Office.

Correct…and it is the responsibility of the applicant to fill out the form correctly.
DG

 

[sikamalc]

It’s got nothing to do with the police. The statutory guidelines are written by the Home Office.

Correct. However, each Chief Constable can apply those guidelines as he see's fit. And this is partly why there is so much inconsistency in the whole process.
Plus the staff they employ at times, are not trained properly, and also add to the issue at times.

 

[nic531]

Aren’t your medical records all digitalised nowadays and electronically stored, opposed to old paper records?

A pi$$ poor show and service by the MET.. Obviously they only have one agenda, but refusing your renewal won’t do anything to keep illegal firearms off the streets which is what they need to be addressing…

I’ve had a text message from my surgery suggesting my annual check-up / health check being over 50 now… I may just take them up on it and quiz them about the practice policy on the FAC medical proforma’s.. Certs expire in December… getting the preforma signed in May may be too soon?

cert lasts 6 months. I applied to shoot cert 6 months before my ticket expires so that it should arrive 4 months + before and I will put my renewal in the day I get the cert

 

[nun_hunter]

Once again this proves the police don't trust the system that is in place, as a current holder of fac/sgc you have a marker on your records, therefore if the gp has not notified the police of any incident or condition since the marker was put in place, there is no reason to get another medical form filled out.

I asked this exact question to the former FLD supervisor in Sussex and that was exactly their reply!

I said it should be a "one and done" situation assuming you stay with the same GP, as the marker has been added to their record of you, they have said they'll contact if there is anything to notify about and they have checked that nothing previously is relevant.

They agreed that this should be the case but they didn't trust that all those steps would work as intended and so it would need to be done every 5 years

 

[308tikka]

Send an email to gp formally requesting an electronic copy of your ENTIRE file INCLUDING notes. They should send you a pdf of your file. Send that on to whoever you choose to complete your application...shotgun medical in my case...they have all they need unless a licencing team decide to make up more rules as they go along.

This where BASC needs to step up to the plate...gp proforma isn't a legal requirement but we as holders understand the request, so why don't the major bodies such as BASC lobby to have a consistent timescale that gp's MUST complete...5yrs, 10yrs, or whatever! 5 years makes sense as it will cover a certificates history since last renewal....or do licencing teams keep our records historically??? In the event of a new licence application then yes go for the whole file of medical background, after this every 5 years should only be needed.

I'm sick of hearing about licensing teams making up their own boundaries, terms, requirements or 'expectations' many of which are not legislative and yet bodies like BASC just bend over and take it without fighting for legislation to be adhered to by licencing teams despite us prospective certificate holders adhering to any and every 'rule' out there.

More BASC ‘success’.

 

[Shootgun]

As per the guidance list above did you list your GP surgeries covering the last 10years? My renewal I listed my current (6 years) and previous (2 years) and the one before that so they had the 10 years of GP surgeries info, it’s not that your records weren’t checked for a longer period it’s likely they just need the 10 years of surgery details, a bit like the 5 year address history other places ask for….

I surely did

Did you se the completedcproforma, before it was sent to the Met?

Of course i did, it was sent to the Met by me

Maybe it’s the OP who is at fault here NOT firearms licensing.
He was asked to provide information on his application form. He didn’t so his application was refused.
Simple.

I can assure you this is not the case, so not that simple

Did you provide details of your dead GP on the form…?

Yes i did

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

I really do hope all this gets ironed out, I very nearly didn’t get my FAC renewed, due to a new keen FEO who obviously didn’t like my very straight point of view and very clearly taking no notice of my medical records

But luckily for me after a very quick chat with my Quack (she rang me) she called Norfolk and put them straight and 2 days later my tickets arrived.

 

[NullMac]

Many people move home, putting them under a different doctors surgery, but medical notes should be easily obtained on request, and going back 10 years on someones notes, or to ask a doctors opinion 10 years back is pointless. And the doctor or surgery may have closed/retired or passed away.

Should, but..?

It is just another way of putting pressure on legitimate firearms owners, in my opinion.

Stuff like this mostly boils down to either cock up or conspiracy.

Generally people are not bright enough to run complex multiagency conspiracies so cock up is always a good bet.

 

[One on top of two]

I surely did



Of course i did, it was sent to the Met by me



I can assure you this is not the case, so not that simple



Yes i did

Forgive me if you have already answered this .

Is this the first time you have had to do the medical cert ? Or did you do it on your last renewal ?

 

[Shootgun]

Forgive me if you have already answered this .

Is this the first time you have had to do the medical cert ? Or did you do it on your last renewal ?

First time for me

 

[One on top of two]

First time for me

Ok . My renewal is this time next year , but this will be my 2nd time doing the medical bit ( it’s been a thing in Lincolnshire for the past 6 years ) I have not been with my current doctor for 10 yrs , think it will be 8 yrs at the time I renew .
Wonder how they will go about people in my situation when our medical cert was ok at the last renewal but don’t have 10 yrs with current doctor .as long as nothing new flags up I can’t see how they could not accept it.

 

[reiver]

That is possibly true but it also makes people send in a complete application that can be processed in a set order in the most effective way so making future savings. A bit like the online applications, they're a pain and some people don't like them and so insist on filling out a paper version because it's easier for them in the short term, but long term it's just going to cause more issues.

I filled my forms in and hand delivered them they checked them whilst I was there and took my payment . Fac back in approximately 8weeks inc home inspection.. no issues !

 

[tim@tcs]

AFAIK this is national policy, not just the Met. It’s certainly the case in Sussex.

I speak to my GP a fair bit and he told me he answered that he wasn’t a specialist in mental health and therefore wouldn’t answer their questions. It went through fine.

 

[Twodogs]

cert lasts 6 months. I applied to shoot cert 6 months before my ticket expires so that it should arrive 4 months + before and I will put my renewal in the day I get the cert

Not in Gloucestershire. 3 months.

 

[fixedwheel]

I asked this exact question to the former FLD supervisor in Sussex and that was exactly their reply!

I said it should be a "one and done" situation assuming you stay with the same GP, as the marker has been added to their record of you, they have said they'll contact if there is anything to notify about and they have checked that nothing previously is relevant.

They agreed that this should be the case but they didn't trust that all those steps would work as intended and so it would need to be done every 5 years

Probably because the Memorandum of Understanding really means that the Doctor

1. Doesn't have to engage.
2. Doesn't have to put the marker on the system, the word used is "encouraged"
3. Doesn't actually have to pay any regard to the marker, if they so choose.
4. HO/Police will have absolutely no comeback anyways.

Does make you wonder what use it actually is.

https://www.sheffield-lmc.org.uk/website/IGP217/files/Firearms%20MoU%20(18%20July%202019).pdf