SACS what do they actually do ?

[Rake Aboot]

Ian's made 7 posts since 2009! He must be very busy

Whenever I read about SACS I only ever hear about Ian, but can anyone tell me if there is anyone else on the organisational side of things in SACS?

Do they have a committee or a board? Do they have regional officers?

I ask the question as, much as I admire the rapport they have built with their membership, I just don't see how an organisation like SACS can scale if everything is down to one person? How big is their membership?

I looked on the SACS website but there is no information. Now I know "Ian is too busy fighting for his members to update the website", but it's been like that for years!

On a more generic point, I really don't see how any of the organisations can win - if they are not on here then they're criticised for being too remote from their grass roots members, whereas if they are on here they are obviously lazy good for nothing's who shouldn't be wasting their time on websites!

willie_gunn

Tam Parker is the regional chairman for central Scotland.
I have always found him very helpfull as well as being a very nice bloke, He is always forthcoming with advise and will go out of his way to help if he can.

 

[foxinmad]

+1 on the above post Tam is a sound bloke i have known for years and he will go out his way to help anyone he can

 

[willie_gunn]

Many thanks. Is there a list of the regional chairmen anywhere? I'd like to see if there's one for England at all?

​willie_gunn

 

[David63]

Good evening Scots Stalker,

I cannot understand how me asking Ian to clarify why he is accusing the LAG of treachery can possibly be seen as ‘sniping’ or is there something else I posted that has caught your eye?

David

 

[6pointer]

David do you want Ians phone number. ??

 

[Paul at Fechan]

bouncy beuty Sexy Shay Laren - YouTube

thank you Jesus...

I'm supposed to be going to bed and up for 4.30am..... change of plans

... because SACS would approve

 

[Paul at Fechan]

on a more serious note, it must be frustrating for David to try and play a points games against SACS when Ian doesn't care about what BASC says generally, you can't win because it's not a competition! I don't mind BASC, they put on a good show and pretend well but my top tip for David would be to stop trying to knock Ian or SACS because it's not about a man or the organisations ideals.... it's about cheap liability insurance that is just a photocopy sent off to prove you've got it because that's what we've all got to do for leases our as part of what we do! The other stuff Ian does is a bonus for us all, you the man!

All the rest is what if... as in 'what if' tomorrow I have that heart attack because i eat too much crap. 'What if' a lead ban comes in regarding hunting bullets? Who cares, I don't because Saturday and today I went stalking and tomorrow yep I'm planning the same.

Do something, mean it and do some more, going on about all that oh we're so good because we blah blah is a waste of time and the best bit on this thread so far was a top youtube link. Some people do positive things for others (ats is a hero), lots of other people and even organisations talk about it a fair bit.

pistols
hunting with dogs
lead shot

any positives, or big wins driven by an organisation.... right shoosh

 

[NorthDorset]

on a more serious note, it must be frustrating for David to try and play a points games against SACS when Ian doesn't care about what BASC says generally, you can't win because it's not a competition! I don't mind BASC, they put on a good show and pretend well but my top tip for David would be to stop trying to knock Ian or SACS because it's not about a man or the organisations ideals.... it's about cheap liability insurance that is just a photocopy sent off to prove you've got it because that's what we've all got to do for leases our as part of what we do! The other stuff Ian does is a bonus for us all, you the man!

All the rest is what if... as in 'what if' tomorrow I have that heart attack because i eat too much crap. 'What if' a lead ban comes in regarding hunting bullets? Who cares, I don't because Saturday and today I went stalking and tomorrow yep I'm planning the same.

Do something, mean it and do some more, going on about all that oh we're so good because we blah blah is a waste of time and the best bit on this thread so far was a top youtube link. Some people do positive things for others (ats is a hero), lots of other people and even organisations talk about it a fair bit.

pistols
hunting with dogs
lead shot

any positives, or big wins driven by an organisation.... right shoosh

Slightly squiffy last night Paul?

You indicate that for you it's about the cheap insurance. I have been banging on for a while that for me it is not about the cheap insurance and that my concern is that our "representative bodies" are too much niche market insurance sales companies and leave us seriously lacking a cohesive professional voice arguing for our sport.

We need a body that is respected by Government and can lobby with authority. Look at what the NRA have pulled off protecting AR style rifles in the USA.

Ian is certainly a splendid bloke by all accounts but if he is a one man band representing a thousand stalkers then my level of expectation is obviously lower than from BASC or CA. As it is I have no frame of reference because this information isn't public. I can't see legal ownership information on Ian's web site (which is a legal requirement) so I can't even run a credit check to see what the size of the operation is.

I no longer rely on Stalking and Shooting to provide my income but I remain passionate about the sport and indeed all things shooting. I would like to see this heritage preserved for future generations. As a trade member Paul surely, perhaps after a coffee, you would like someone to be working in this direction too? If nothing else to protect your immediate income stream.

 

[finnbear270]

Wonder when SD will get big enough to be a voice listened to?, seems most of the deep feeling shooting types are on here somewhere's:idea:

 

[willie_gunn]

seems most of the deep feeling shooting types are on here somewhere's:idea:

That's wishful thinking.

I know far more stalkers who are not on SD than those who are. We might want to believe that the Site is the center of the stalking universe but the reality is that it's probably still barely scratching the surface.

The good news is that this means that there are still tremendous opportunities for the Site, which is great.

​willie_gunn

 

[finnbear270]

That's wishful thinking.

I know far more stalkers who are not on SD than those who are. We might want to believe that the Site is the center of the stalking universe but the reality is that it's probably still barely scratching the surface.

The good news is that this means that there are still tremendous opportunities for the Site, which is great.

​willie_gunn

Morni'n Dom, Happy Easter mate, Just reckoned a lot of the regulars on here have some pretty strong views, If you are correct on more being outside than in, then maybe we might get that unified voice eventually?

 

[willie_gunn]

Morni'n Dom, Happy Easter mate, Just reckoned a lot of the regulars on here have some pretty strong views, If you are correct on more being outside than in, then maybe we might get that unified voice eventually?

I really hope so Steve. If all the anger and bluster that's sometimes displayed could be focused in the same direction we'd be in a much better position.

Happy Easter too to you and yours.

​Dom

 

[David63]

Paul,

I have no intention to knock Ian and despite what some may think, and arguably how I have replied to some of the posts from individuals, I have no interest in knocking SACS or anyone else for that matter.

There are significant differences between SACS and CA , BASC or NGO for example in terms of resources and activity. We have very similar objectives but approach it in a slightly different way, not least of all due to the resources we have at our disposal.

As a shooter and indeed as someone who makes their living from shooting I get very frustrated when people appear to ignore the importance of delivering on an effective political and media strategy and focus simply on cheap insurance.

I believe that media lobbying is a very important part of what the organisations must deliver on to help keep our sport safe, if we do not then those who oppose us will have a free run in the media and will look to demonise us, and if you look back that’s what this thread started about.

Although as I say, I am not out knock Ian, I certainly will take him to task if he makes public statements accusing others such as the LAG, which includes CA, GTA, GWCT, and BASC of treachery; I think that is way off side and unacceptable.

David

 

[Moray Outfitting]

WG - exactly!

Bogtrotter has posted elsewhere on the matter of how many stalkers do not take part in SD. Whilst not forgetting freedom of choice - let's not risk becoming 'mandatory'!

This is drifting away from SACs question, but hopefully close enough to indulge me. I think Admins subtle hand has been very well played in recent months. They are between the devil and the deep blue sea in many ways. But their role is essential. We suggest every client join SD - most at least look at it, some join, a few stay. Discussion during the courses indicates that the single biggest turn-off for them is the level of 'heated argument' and petty battles that seem to prevail. SD is perceived as unfriendly. Not my comments - a distillation of theirs. To me that seems an issue for each and everyone of us, not just admin. Said it before, will ( sorry guys! ) likely say it again. Let that passion show by all means, disagree and debate - great. But its the nasty, personalised or just plain nonsensical that brings the whole forum down - and most of us have erred in that respect... possibly some more than others! Its a very few - but those few have effectively excluded a majority. It rests with each one of us.

EDIT - Apologies guys - meant to put in that of late there's been plenty of debate across the forum, but in general the 'tone' has been much better and arguments much better expressed. So we are moving in right direction - per other thread; is this part of the reason membership is climbing?

So what? Well, I happen to think the forum is great and can be ever better. It has a potential voice that could make a difference - not fantasy wish lists but a real, pragmatic difference. That voice is too easily disregarded as we ( the forum ) can be written off as a bunch of cranks etc.

Back to the thread - if I have misread posts I'm happy to be set right. My reading shows a couple of clangers from David, but specifically a post by Ian of SACs that made several assertions - to which he has not offered any expansion despite requests. Subsequently various people have come in to state David has been sniping etc. Aside from those above-mentioned clangers, the sniping seems squarely from Ian and those in support.

I appreciate the above seems accusatory, I've tried re-wording several times, but that was my best effort . Its not intended to be. As raised before there's an underlaying tension that seems to be pulling shooters and their organisations apart rather than together. It crops up time after time with myth, fact, gossip, legend etc - and its hard to tell them apart. But the constant theme is we do not seem able to move on. In the meantime we all lose out.

Ian raised issues on this thread, I really, honestly and genuinely would like to see his response - to the same forum he posted it. Because I believe its a useful starting point to work toward getting some resolution - whichever way in runs. Papering over cracks never works.

Its not a BASC/SACs/BDS/WI/RAC etc etc etc witch hunt for my part. I want our representatives - whoever they are - pulling in one direction ( on basis that pulling together probably unrealistic ).

Andy

 

[Salmo Salar]

Rather than having the original question turned into an open debate that was obviously going to stir things up why could the question not have been asked directly to the SACs privately. Then it would save all the bickering on here - I'm better than you etc etc.

 

[widows son]

If this thread did not have the trade banners above the names it would have been pulled long ago ,it is the same crap every time .

It most certainly isn't doing BASC any favours entering into a slanging match ,with other organisations or members on here ,something David you should look at as it happens every time you start a debate on this site .

If people were to be asked why they join a organisation ,90% will tell you for the insurance nothing more or less ,not a glossy magazine (that is full of adverts)no doubt to keep it afloat .

 

[willie_gunn]

Andy

I agree - I think there's genuinely a chance for the Site to contribute very positively to the world of stalking and it's perception by the public. The support for Kelso Game Fair and the tremendous activities for Help For Heroes being cases in point, not to mention the incredible generosity of individual site members which come to the fore time after time.

Personally I am a member of CA, BASC, BDS and GWCT because I believe our sports need defending, however disjointed these organisations can sometimes be. Insurance is a handy benefit, but not the main motivation.

Given that I stalk in Scotland a few times each year I would also be happy to support SACS, as heaven knows stalking in Scotland will need all the help it can get if people vote Yes in 2014 - just look at what's happening with airguns. But first I would like to know something about the SACS organisation and what it really does.

So if Ian (or anyone else from SACS) can answer these simple questions for me I'll commit to signing up to SACS straight away:

1. How many members does SACS actually have, to the nearest 100?
2. What is the organisational structure of SACS - board, committee, regional officers, etc?
3. Where can I find the SACS Annual Reports, including Financials?
4. What has SACS done, what is it doing, or planning to do, for members South of the border?
5. When will SACS finish its website? (just joking on this one)

There's lots more I'd like to know about what activities SACS is doing in terms of education, conservation, etc., but I think the above are not only fair but of interest to anyone considering joining?

willie_gunn

 

[Munty_Hunter]

David BASC... if you would spend the amount of time you spend on here working for your own members instead of cruising about on here trying to score points by sniping away..... Could it be that Ian is obviously too busy away working for his membership to be in a position to answer your questions... I dare say when he does get a spare moment he will get back to you.... So for the moment lets give it a rest.....

David

Can I point out that this was an original post asking what SACS actually do? SACS have replied once to a thread aimed directly at them/him??
Meanwhile David at BASC has asked some straight questions about some dubious points raised. (Just note Davids last few posts have not been made during work hours!!) I feel that some of the attacking of BASC on here is really sad and and I thimk they are in a position of being damned if they do damned if they don't. When Ian Clarke eventually appears on here and starts making provoking comments with reference to leather armchairs etc I equally don't hear anyone jumping at his throat.

Come on as Michael and others say, why can't we just stand together and accept that no one organisation is going to tick all the boxes.

 

[Archer]

SACS what do they actually do ?

A simple question and, for me, a simple answer;

Exactly what I want them to provide for the money I am prepared to pay

 

[Salmo Salar]

Andy

I agree - I think there's genuinely a chance for the Site to contribute very positively to the world of stalking and it's perception by the public. The support for Kelso Game Fair and the tremendous activities for Help For Heroes being cases in point, not to mention the incredible generosity of individual site members which come to the fore time after time.

Personally I am a member of CA, BASC, BDS and GWCT because I believe our sports need defending, however disjointed these organisations can sometimes be. Insurance is a handy benefit, but not the main motivation.

Given that I stalk in Scotland a few times each year I would also be happy to support SACS, as heaven knows stalking in Scotland will need all the help it can get if people vote Yes in 2014 - just look at what's happening with airguns. But first I would like to know something about the SACS organisation and what it really does.

So if Ian (or anyone else from SACS) can answer these simple questions for me I'll commit to signing up to SACS straight away:

1. How many members does SACS actually have, to the nearest 100?
2. What is the organisational structure of SACS - board, committee, regional officers, etc?
3. Where can I find the SACS Annual Reports, including Financials?
4. What has SACS done, what is it doing, or planning to do, for members South of the border?
5. When will SACS finish its website? (just joking on this one)

There's lots more I'd like to know about what activities SACS is doing in terms of education, conservation, etc., but I think the above are not only fair but of interest to anyone considering joining?

willie_gunn

Rather than write a list of questions to an organisation onto an open forum, write to them directly with your questions and I'm sure you'd be more likely to get a response