Morkai
Well-Known Member
Did they go into clothing/fur trade?
Shoot more Deer !
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Did they go into clothing/fur trade?
Overlay
Well-Known Member
That was a while back, I haven’t been part of any FC syndicates post covid, so I have no idea what the lease details are or annual testing, qualifications required now, a lot has changed
Probably annual dsc1 shooting test, first aid +F DSC level 2 plus, regular cull returns and monitoring by fc staff on test days, excluding all the normal paperwork etc that has to be fulfilled
Actually time-wise it is little different over the year - I know because we track the time spent stalking, the number of deer seen, as well as the number of deer shot, for each outing. One of the side-effects of forestry grants is that these type of statistics become increasingly important, as there is the need to prove the effort put in.
As I noted, in the last few years we’ve shot a higher proportion of deer in Summer than the average over the last 23 years. This reflects the fact that the deer stalking has become more visible in terms of overall estate management. Hence also why not shooting deer in the Summer is not an option.
Morkai
Well-Known Member
Ah, my fault.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I keep reading on this thread how individuals have to spend all hours of day and night out trying to shoot deer. In particular deer such as muntjac in thick woodland.
The rest of the world’s hunters must be laughing at us. If we need to control numbers we need to do what everywhere else in the world.
Invite all your friends and neighbours. Put everybody out in the woods and fields across your hunting area. Indeed combine two or three bits together. Put the dog and several beaters dressed in orange and start stirring everything up. And shoot everything that comes out.
FFS we invented driven phaesant shooting, and we spend a fortune to rear and put down phaesants for them to be shot. I have only shot the once down in Cambridgeshire on phaesants. This was a few years ago and I could easily have shot several on just one drive, so could most of the other guns.
After it’s how they manage wild boar. One female boar can easily produce half a dozen to ten piglets a year - muntjac are complete amateurs compared to boar.
Its perfectly possible to safely use rifles on driven hunts. Needs some training and discipline, but with practice its no more difficult than hitting a bird with a shotgun.
And frankly with decent shot and short ranges no muntjac or other smaller deer will survive a shotgun. By short I mean 20 yards max.
Given the volume of meat harvested no issues in having a meat inspector on site with a proper mobile gralloching, inspection and processing facility with the meat then going into the local market.
As for the general public - well this government mandated deer control.
The beauty of driven hunts is the volume you can take out in a day. Then you can leave the woods in peace for the animals to go back to doing what they do with the constant pressure from deer cullers trying to meet targets.
The rest of the world’s hunters must be laughing at us. If we need to control numbers we need to do what everywhere else in the world.
Invite all your friends and neighbours. Put everybody out in the woods and fields across your hunting area. Indeed combine two or three bits together. Put the dog and several beaters dressed in orange and start stirring everything up. And shoot everything that comes out.
FFS we invented driven phaesant shooting, and we spend a fortune to rear and put down phaesants for them to be shot. I have only shot the once down in Cambridgeshire on phaesants. This was a few years ago and I could easily have shot several on just one drive, so could most of the other guns.
After it’s how they manage wild boar. One female boar can easily produce half a dozen to ten piglets a year - muntjac are complete amateurs compared to boar.
Its perfectly possible to safely use rifles on driven hunts. Needs some training and discipline, but with practice its no more difficult than hitting a bird with a shotgun.
And frankly with decent shot and short ranges no muntjac or other smaller deer will survive a shotgun. By short I mean 20 yards max.
Given the volume of meat harvested no issues in having a meat inspector on site with a proper mobile gralloching, inspection and processing facility with the meat then going into the local market.
As for the general public - well this government mandated deer control.
The beauty of driven hunts is the volume you can take out in a day. Then you can leave the woods in peace for the animals to go back to doing what they do with the constant pressure from deer cullers trying to meet targets.
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
Above is fair, but - I honestly don’t think that the competence of the average stalker would allow it.
You get tired of hearing ‘they live next door and just come on and off here’ - figure out when and shoot them, it’s not rocket science. Stalkers here obsess about getting the stalking next door rather than making opportunities.
You get tired of hearing ‘they live next door and just come on and off here’ - figure out when and shoot them, it’s not rocket science. Stalkers here obsess about getting the stalking next door rather than making opportunities.
No it's not rocket science but if you have a good clairvoyant I would be happy to rent her off you.
Yes they do live in woodland on surrounding ground and only come on and off us. If you doubt what a lot of us say about this come and have a look and sit a spell, bring a rifle and show us how to figure things out.
big ears
Well-Known Member
They are not the only problem but they are one of the issues. People sitting on large tracts of land and “managing” the population so that they get good returns on client stalking is going to have to change unless we want to see large scale government contracts and the end of small scale stalkers.
We all need to face up to facts that the stalking market is changing. For some this will mean a reduction in income which is regrettable but the way it is.
Reports of cull days being offered perhaps will be the norm rather than paid stalking for a single animal.
Stalking has to evolve and the rising population of deer means it needs to change quickly or it will be taken out if our hands.
BE
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When I turn up to this new patch (Feb) where they pass through as it is not drilled also woods either end of the farm, large grass fields surrounding winter wheat in the other fields and you see
THIS...
and THIS
My plan switched to the .243 with Drone 10 and last light
5 from 6 fallow also a muntjac on very last light (to dark for my z6)
I am using my contacts to have a chat with the other land owners but that takes time also most farms are behind so the last thing they want is to be dealing with a person who has just turned up, (learnt that from pigeon shooting many years ago)
Not interested in the surrounding stalking as it is too much but they are sometimes only the other side of the ditch making their way back!
south-nofolk-stalker
Well-Known Member
Collaborative cull days are the way forward, you can kill a lot of deer in a weekend.
4 days a year per 500 acres, with bums in seats will drastically reduce numbers, but I will add for that to work you need to leave it alone in between those days, so the influx to replace the culled can happen.
But unfortunately, for a vast majority of people, they wouldn’t be able to do that because they can’t leave it alone, alone patience is the key with killing numbers.
You keep going at them week after week, just drives them nocturnal and makes life much harder than it needs to be.
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
I think that's just because we are probably pretty crap at it vs out European cousins. But also you sound like a "professional" and really I was thinking more for getting groups of like minded recreational stalkers together in the similar way driven shoots do with 30/40 guns at a time and making it a social occasion I am sure with that many guns out across various locations you would make a massive dint in the numbers very quickly and effectively. It must work otherwise the Monteria management approach would have been scrapped.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Not mentioned yet but very relevant is stalkers age profile.
We’re mostly over 60 and not getting more active annually, we’re resistant to change and what we have we hold.
We have grown up with a the attitude that shooting small numbers of deer is laudable, most of us aren’t set up to either shoot recover or process multiple deer, especially the big 3, but we control a heck of a lot of land.
There are very few new permissions out there, just old ones being recycled and we are the ones blocking access to stalking for younger more active newbies.
If you don’t believe me, have a look at the profile of people who are taking up stalking, most of them are mature and wealthy enough to be able to pick and chose, not young adults. They want a hobby, not a part time job that pays buttons.
To go stalking you need your own transport plus access to a bit of ground with deer on it. That can be expensive.
The gear itself can be inexpensive, but if you’re going to bring carcasses home you need some basic facilities to process it, the kitchen in an apartment block is not ideal. That rules out a lot of young people.
Personally I won’t work for free, I’d sooner walk away from an animal than recover it, butcher it and then just give it away, I don’t have the time for that malarkey, if you want it you can have it, but you’ll do the hard graft yourself.
I have a choice to make.
Keep going as I am, shooting around 30 a year, keeping around 6 myself and putting the rest into the weigh and pay, shoot only the few I want for personal use, or shoot on sight leaving the carcasses that are awkward to recover where they lie but shooting more animals?
Its an awkward situation.
We’re mostly over 60 and not getting more active annually, we’re resistant to change and what we have we hold.
We have grown up with a the attitude that shooting small numbers of deer is laudable, most of us aren’t set up to either shoot recover or process multiple deer, especially the big 3, but we control a heck of a lot of land.
There are very few new permissions out there, just old ones being recycled and we are the ones blocking access to stalking for younger more active newbies.
If you don’t believe me, have a look at the profile of people who are taking up stalking, most of them are mature and wealthy enough to be able to pick and chose, not young adults. They want a hobby, not a part time job that pays buttons.
To go stalking you need your own transport plus access to a bit of ground with deer on it. That can be expensive.
The gear itself can be inexpensive, but if you’re going to bring carcasses home you need some basic facilities to process it, the kitchen in an apartment block is not ideal. That rules out a lot of young people.
Personally I won’t work for free, I’d sooner walk away from an animal than recover it, butcher it and then just give it away, I don’t have the time for that malarkey, if you want it you can have it, but you’ll do the hard graft yourself.
I have a choice to make.
Keep going as I am, shooting around 30 a year, keeping around 6 myself and putting the rest into the weigh and pay, shoot only the few I want for personal use, or shoot on sight leaving the carcasses that are awkward to recover where they lie but shooting more animals?
Its an awkward situation.
south-nofolk-stalker
Well-Known Member
Those kind of drives can work but you need 1000’s of acres in a lump to bring in towards the waiting guns, the logistics alone are just simply not enough to make this happen in the UK.
With the fallow in Lincolnshire for example you would need 200+ beaters 50+ guns and 10,000 acres to go at to actually achieve anything.
With the fallow in Lincolnshire for example you would need 200+ beaters 50+ guns and 10,000 acres to go at to actually achieve anything.
baguio
Well-Known Member
Sorry Heym but you're talking about stuff that you really don't have the slightest clue about.
You seriously think that driven hunts in very public woods that you can't ban the public from would be safe? Don't be silly! So we use a shotgun (which I'm not sure is legal) and then you think that shot muntjac would pass the meat inspector's inspection? Seriously? Also, who's paying for the meat inspector when the muntjac carcass has zero value?
Who would sign off the Risk assessment for a load of unknown individuals to start blatting away at ground game in woods that may have walkers in them? No estate owner or manager that I know.
Please take a deep breath and think about what you're typing. I could add a hundred more reason why you're posting horlicks but what's the point?
tim@tcs
Well-Known Member
I believe so, it was told me by the chaps neighbour who is in our syndicate. I know of a handful who still do in Canada
Post #74
south-nofolk-stalker
Well-Known Member
Yup I guess that’s me tooJust realised that I'm now an old fart!
Me too!Just realised that I'm now an old fart!
But at least I've bred another stalker who isn't.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Sorry, missed it.
Don’t worry, you’re in good company.Just realised that I'm now an old fart!
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