Shooting Steel

[Bowland blades]

I have mainly shot steel for the last decade ! Most folks cannot make the break mentally , performance wise steel kills stuff often better than lead ( when you choose the correct shell) .
Not just small duck but high Geese and Fox are easy slain once you get used to it . You tend to not get lucky with one or two pellet strikes like you do lead and 5 yards out of range means a lot more than lead ( steel literally hits an invisible wall in a small window out there) Be sure of your cartrige range .
Americans can send it faster and that stuff is better again . For hand loads i ignore CIP velocity limits a good deal and look just at the pressure report . Other than that my favourite steel is Gamebore and the game and wet 2 3/4 32 gram 4 is a decent choice for walking up pheasant / Rabbit or shooting duck over decoys . Mamouth 3" 36 grm for high pheasant in 3 shot.
Keep to half choke max for anything , steel patterns real tight you will only miss more and smash the heck out of shorter game . I would take 1/4 and half on a drive and cyl and 1/4 on walk up .
In woodland people ( beaters and guns) should wear safety glasses steel with steel bounces off trees often and it hurts , one in the eye will blind or worse .
The 410 i do not think is a steel shot gun even when the choke is cylinder . Small Bismuth for that one and you will likely have to load your own but its best to load 410 RTO anyhow always has been so you dont need a lot of kit
Seriously buy good steel shells and dont shoot 5 yards further than you have found consistently effected with your load and protect those eyes ! First time you can one back at you get one back at you will know it hopefully its not in your eye if you follow what i suggest and wear safety specs

 

[Tazz]

1 uses Dark Storm Steel Quad Seal size #3 or size #4

That’s what I am considering they are on my short list, do you find they kill as well as lead or at least close to that performance?

 

[Bowland blades]

I use the Eley Grand prix steel or Gamebore Regal Steel in my old 2 1/2” chambered guns and have done so since they became available. I see no difference to the original lead versions in terms of killing ability and missing ability.

Provided your gun is in good order, has a post 1954 proof and chocked with less than half choke you can use such cartridges in any shotgun.

Some prefer the High Speed steel that can only be used in a steel proofed gun. I do use these on the foreshore out of a modern semi auto on ducks and geese, but they are substantially more expensive. And as others have said they kick and are noisy.

But I see little need to use such cartridges on every day shooting, in the same way you did not use Alphamax or Magnum cartridges for everyday game shooting in the pre lead era.

Going back to the normal steel, I really have need to change anything other than the cartridge. I still shoot the same way. Perhaps timing is slightly different - in the same that a different brand of cartridge is often a little different and it might a few shots at the beginning of the day to warm up. But then don’t really know whether its the cartridge or me.

IMO its the short dense shot string , very rarely do steel shot ducks come down from 2 or three pellets and we all know that's quite common with lead . Quite right warming up gets you back into the confident swing , i find a shoot steel far worse than lead ( the latter has been a while ) when i am nervous or haven't shot the shotgun in a while with anything. Clay grounds need to stop saying no to practice with steel . If that means a few re- designs of stands fair do . Advertise it and the customers will come ( they need to practice tbf )

 

[Heym SR20]

IMO its the short dense shot string , very rarely do steel shot ducks come down from 2 or three pellets and we all know that's quite common with lead . Quite right warming up gets you back into the confident swing , i find a shoot steel far worse than lead ( the latter has been a while ) when i am nervous or haven't shot the shotgun in a while with anything. Clay grounds need to stop saying no to practice with steel . If that means a few re- designs of stands fair do . Advertise it and the customers will come ( they need to practice tbf )

To some extent I have found that steel is either a clean miss or a clean kill. Probably because of the tighter pattern. Personally I think use of no5 shot might be better than no 4s just because of the much denser pattern.

I don’t really think ducks, phaesants etc are killed by pellets that penetrate. Indeed you often find pellets in the breast that don’t penetrate the vitals. Rather they are killed by the impact of the shot, followed by the thump on the ground.

With lead, I reckon No 7 shot is pretty good for most things.

I suppose I do tend to pick my shots these days and tend to leave those that’s a bit far but I will take a shot in hope type shots that I perhaps used to. To be honest those shots, whilst they can give spectacular kills, often will result in pricked birds that are never recovered. Whether you use lead or steel is irrelevant. A shotgun is a 30 to 40 yard machine, even super extra magnum ultra long barrels might extend this by 10 yards but pattern and ballistics of little round shot soon fail.

Heavier loads of shot are better at longer ranges simply because there is a denser pattern and thus the bird is hit with more pellets.

Re clay grounds and steel - fully agree with your sentiments. The one I use is totally happy with steel shot.

 

[Covert]

To some extent I have found that steel is either a clean miss or a clean kill. Probably because of the tighter pattern. Personally I think use of no5 shot might be better than no 4s just because of the much denser pattern.

I don’t really think ducks, phaesants etc are killed by pellets that penetrate. Indeed you often find pellets in the breast that don’t penetrate the vitals. Rather they are killed by the impact of the shot, followed by the thump on the ground.

With lead, I reckon No 7 shot is pretty good for most things.

I suppose I do tend to pick my shots these days and tend to leave those that’s a bit far but I will take a shot in hope type shots that I perhaps used to. To be honest those shots, whilst they can give spectacular kills, often will result in pricked birds that are never recovered. Whether you use lead or steel is irrelevant. A shotgun is a 30 to 40 yard machine, even super extra magnum ultra long barrels might extend this by 10 yards but pattern and ballistics of little round shot soon fail.

Heavier loads of shot are better at longer ranges simply because there is a denser pattern and thus the bird is hit with more pellets.

Re clay grounds and steel - fully agree with your sentiments. The one I use is totally happy with steel shot.

I would disagree that steel is either a clean kill or miss. My experience has been quite the opposite. A couple of examples that readily spring to mind.
Two of us on several occasions shared a pigeon hide on large days at decoyed pigeon. Both experienced shots, not taking shots past 40 yards.
Taking it in turns to shoot with a semi auto with the other guy loading a mix of different brands/loads of lead , steel, tungsten , bismuth etc. The difference was significant, the steel was inferior with lots of birds carrying on and requiring extra shots. We picked up a lot of long droppers that had made it to the trees and hedges.
I was picking up with a team of dogs on a large driven duck day, one of the guns was a good experienced shot and brand ambassador for a cartridge manufacturer. He was using steel cartridges at a sporting range of not more than 40 yards ( in my estimation), the majority around 30 yards. At least 75% of the duck he shot were wounded with several starting to fall then picking themselves up and flying on. My dogs and myself were absolutely covered in blood by the end of the day with me having to dispatch the majority.
I have shot most brands /loads of steel cartridges available both here and in North American over the last 20 years and would only consider using high performance steel in 3 or 3 1/2 inch ammunition in a semi auto for wildfowl.

 

[enfieldspares]

I don’t really think ducks, phaesants etc are killed by pellets that penetrate. Indeed you often find pellets in the breast that don’t penetrate the vitals. Rather they are killed by the impact of the shot, followed by the thump on the ground.

This is what Payne-Gallwey reckoned in his pre-WWI book "High Pheasants in Theory and Practice" and said that his (by that time in his life) cylinder and one ounce English #7 stunned them and the impact of the fall killed them. But go back twenty years or so and in "Letters to Young Shooters" he advise 1 1/8 ounce of English #5.

 

[bullet chucker]

Hull Cartridge list's~ 12g High Pheasant Xtreme Steel 32g FE3 HYDRO WAD 70mm-20mm-23/4" 1400v. Bismuth 30g cartridges are more expensive and a bit slower @ 1375v with fiber wad.

BC.

 

[Heym SR20]

I would disagree that steel is either a clean kill or miss. My experience has been quite the opposite. A couple of examples that readily spring to mind.
Two of us on several occasions shared a pigeon hide on large days at decoyed pigeon. Both experienced shots, not taking shots past 40 yards.
Taking it in turns to shoot with a semi auto with the other guy loading a mix of different brands/loads of lead , steel, tungsten , bismuth etc. The difference was significant, the steel was inferior with lots of birds carrying on and requiring extra shots. We picked up a lot of long droppers that had made it to the trees and hedges.
I was picking up with a team of dogs on a large driven duck day, one of the guns was a good experienced shot and brand ambassador for a cartridge manufacturer. He was using steel cartridges at a sporting range of not more than 40 yards ( in my estimation), the majority around 30 yards. At least 75% of the duck he shot were wounded with several starting to fall then picking themselves up and flying on. My dogs and myself were absolutely covered in blood by the end of the day with me having to dispatch the majority.
I have shot most brands /loads of steel cartridges available both here and in North American over the last 20 years and would only consider using high performance steel in 3 or 3 1/2 inch ammunition in a semi auto for wildfowl.

Poor shooting methinks. I have seen similar poor shooting the days of lead. If you don’t put the bird in the centre of the pattern you will end up with wounded birds, regardless of what load you are using.

For a while I used a Benelli Nova with steel on wildfowl. I couldn’t kill anything with it. I missed, or if I did hit they were wounded.

I eventually got sick of it and pretty much gave up wildfowling. I blamed steel.

The I tried the Franchi Affinity in left hand. It has an adjustable stock so got it to fit well. Pretty much everything I hit - mallard, widgeon and pinks is dead on the spot. And using the same cartridges as before.

 

[Bowland blades]

To some extent I have found that steel is either a clean miss or a clean kill. Probably because of the tighter pattern. Personally I think use of no5 shot might be better than no 4s just because of the much denser pattern.

I don’t really think ducks, phaesants etc are killed by pellets that penetrate. Indeed you often find pellets in the breast that don’t penetrate the vitals. Rather they are killed by the impact of the shot, followed by the thump on the ground.

With lead, I reckon No 7 shot is pretty good for most things.

I suppose I do tend to pick my shots these days and tend to leave those that’s a bit far but I will take a shot in hope type shots that I perhaps used to. To be honest those shots, whilst they can give spectacular kills, often will result in pricked birds that are never recovered. Whether you use lead or steel is irrelevant. A shotgun is a 30 to 40 yard machine, even super extra magnum ultra long barrels might extend this by 10 yards but pattern and ballistics of little round shot soon fail.

Heavier loads of shot are better at longer ranges simply because there is a denser pattern and thus the bird is hit with more pellets.

Re clay grounds and steel - fully agree with your sentiments. The one I use is totally happy with steel shot.

Lead is lost from patterns because its not always round to start with but also because shot can strike each other and this also deforms the lead . Steel gives shorter strings and pattern tests show full 100% pellets counts frequently
I can only recount what i have found shooting a lot of steel for about the last ten years or so in factory cartridges and hand loads
did a lot of testing of slit depths on the plastic shot-cups now that really does make a difference ( far greater than choke ) . A big gaff was imo starting this fibre shot cup thing with steel . Lets get folks seeing how good steel really is before we make short term promises about loosing plastic , wads in plastic are pretty visible and its not that hard to gather them up as we do Hulls . In testing anything slit even only a third down the cup was on the ground before my 50 yard patterning Butts ( most full cut wads it was 25 yds ) My auto can chuck hulls that far ! - just pick em up !

 

[Liveonce]

wads in plastic are pretty visible and its not that hard to gather them up as we do Hulls .

Will never happen, given the way game and pigeon shooting operates. But I agree with you steel shot is not such an issue for modern guns in 12 and 20gauge but rather the wads are.

We have choices now with biodegradable wads, but what we don’t have is the facts to make an informed choice.

We need wads to have to comply to a product standard to be classified as biodegradable and the typical time they take to degrade in the real world environment (not in an industrial recycling plant at 60 degrees C) on the cartridge carton so we can make an educated decision on what to buy.

Not all biodegradable wads are created equal and easy for a manufacture to mislead us (as one did).

By their very nature making a biodegradable plastic is not simple and making one that works in the environment of a shotgun when fired such that it protects the barrel with steel pellets is an added challenge. The forces are not just acting forward but also sideways trying to push the pellets through the wad to reach the barrel.

If making a strong biodegradable plastic was simple the packaging industry would have done so by now as it’s worth billions, considerably more that the shooting industry.

How many large retailers and brands have now gone back to paper bags and packaging?

“Paper is also more widely recyclable, while plastic bags can take between 400 and 1,000 years to decompose.”
Plastic bags are considerably thinner than a wad used with steel shoot.

Marks & Spencer scraps plastic for paper bags

The retailer is expanding a trial in a move which it says should cut plastics use.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Covert]

Poor shooting methinks. I have seen similar poor shooting the days of lead. If you don’t put the bird in the centre of the pattern you will end up with wounded birds, regardless of what load you are using.

For a while I used a Benelli Nova with steel on wildfowl. I couldn’t kill anything with it. I missed, or if I did hit they were wounded.

I eventually got sick of it and pretty much gave up wildfowling. I blamed steel.

The I tried the Franchi Affinity in left hand. It has an adjustable stock so got it to fit well. Pretty much everything I hit - mallard, widgeon and pinks is dead on the spot. And using the same cartridges as before.

You have your opinion and I respect that.
IMHO it was not bad shooting but the inferior ballistic qualities of steel compared to lead.
If he couldn’t kill ducks clearly at non excessive ranges than nobody can.
The gentlemen in question is an experienced exceptional shot ,shooting 100 plus days a year at game and posts many videos on social media. Probably why the cartridge company use him as a brand ambassador. I have been in his company on many occasions in the shooting field and I would rank his abilities in the top 5% of guns I have seen. Bearing in mind I have spent my entire working live involved in game shooting and been fortunate to have travelled extensively to shoots across the U.K., Europe , North and South America.
On the day in question he failed to contact with a small proportion of ducks the majority being wounded and having to be dispatched when retrieved.
The point I was trying to high light, if marksmanship is taken out of the equation, is that steel is not as lethal as lead on live quarry
As steel is hard and doesn’t deform like lead on impact if it doesn’t hit a vital organ it tends to produce a wound channel that just increases blood loss.

 

[Bowland blades]

Will never happen, given the way game and pigeon shooting operates. But I agree with you steel shot is not such an issue for modern guns in 12 and 20gauge but rather the wads are.

We have choices now with biodegradable wads, but what we don’t have is the facts to make an informed choice.

We need wads to have to comply to a product standard to be classified as biodegradable and the typical time they take to degrade in the real world environment (not in an industrial recycling plant at 60 degrees C) on the cartridge carton so we can make an educated decision on what to buy.

Not all biodegradable wads are created equal and easy for a manufacture to mislead us (as one did).

By their very nature making a biodegradable plastic is not simple and making one that works in the environment of a shotgun when fired such that it protects the barrel with steel pellets is an added challenge. The forces are not just acting forward but also sideways trying to push the pellets through the wad to reach the barrel.

If making a strong biodegradable plastic was simple the packaging industry would have done so by now as it’s worth billions, considerably more that the shooting industry.

How many large retailers and brands have now gone back to paper bags and packaging?

“Paper is also more widely recyclable, while plastic bags can take between 400 and 1,000 years to decompose.”
Plastic bags are considerably thinner than a wad used with steel shoot.

Marks & Spencer scraps plastic for paper bags

The retailer is expanding a trial in a move which it says should cut plastics use.

www.bbc.co.uk

It was simply a bridge too far to make that pledge . Lets be fair its a competitive advantage to create something especially if you manage to keep rights for it so it will happen , its just when ! The Cartridge companies are being asked too much in one hit - Heck we dont make the steel shot in the UK or Europe yet , give the guys a dammed chance eh?
Wait till China actually hit Taiwan, it wont just shotgun ammo we cannot have

 

[Liveonce]

It was simply a bridge too far to make that pledge . Lets be fair its a competitive advantage to create something especially if you manage to keep rights for it so it will happen , its just when ! The Cartridge companies are being asked too much in one hit - Heck we dont make the steel shot in the UK or Europe yet , give the guys a dammed chance eh?
Wait till China actually hit Taiwan, it wont just shotgun ammo we cannot have

indeed but any 100% transition away from lead to all non toxic is untenable if you litter the countryside with millions and millions of non biological wads that will be around for a 1000 years.
THE shooting organisation knew that and hence went for both, which at the time coincided with Eley starting to use the water soluble wad, which was not a new product, but was struggling to find traction due to its cost and any counties legally needing to use it.

Best choice at this time for steel shot is the Eley or Gamebore (both water solubke) option with jocker card wads next if or when they return, the rest take many years to degrade but less time than single use non biodegradable plastic.

Cannot ever see steel shot being made in the u.k. if recent government intervention into the u.k. steel production is anything to go by.

 

[Bowland blades]

indeed but any 100% transition away from lead to all non toxic is untenable if you litter the countryside with millions and millions of non biological wads that will be around for a 1000 years.
THE shooting organisation knew that and hence went for both, which at the time coincided with Eley starting to use the water soluble wad, which was not a new product, but was struggling to find traction due to its cost and any counties legally needing to use it.

Best choice at this time for steel shot is the Eley or Gamebore (both water solubke) option with jocker card wads next if or when they return, the rest take many years to degrade but less time than single use non biodegradable plastic.

Cannot ever see steel shot being made in the u.k. if recent government intervention into the u.k. steel production is anything to go by.

Frankly not for Wildfowling! I did however mention Picking the dambed things up . Yeah a realise some folks do not gather their empty hulls up , wads aint much harder and like i say - We can pick them up ! I know a lot of the old guys used to pick up wads and actually re-use some in the big bore guns

 

[Liveonce]

Frankly not for Wildfowling! I did however mention Picking the dambed things up . Yeah a realise some folks do not gather their empty hulls up , wads aint much harder and like i say - We can pick them up ! I know a lot of the old guys used to pick up wads and actually re-use some in the big bore guns

possibly hit the mail on the head, old guys, with modern attitudes I doubt it would happen, walk round any clay ground and as you say you will see empty cases lying on the ground where the gun can not even be troubled to pick them up and put them in the bin, not a difficult task with a magnetic telescopic stick.

So I just cannot see a gun hunting through trees, brambles, nettles , etc looking for their wads, they will be moving on to the next drive.

You are to be congratulated for picking the wads up, but obviously in the minority, as Denmark demonstrate.

https://www.jaegerforbundet.dk/media/18285/dk-study-plastic-wads.pdf

 

[unicorn71]

That’s what I am considering they are on my short list, do you find they kill as well as lead or at least close to that performance?

4 years ago I made the guns on my shoot transition to lead free , some of the earlier steel was poor and resulted in more wounding while the bismuth was good but expensive, I came across some French HP steel that was very effective but could never find a regular supply . Fast forward to last season and now armed with the 32gr dark storm in 3‘s and 4 ‘s found that the birds were more often than not dead when properly shot , I have found that 1/4 choke in both barrels seems to work well even on the higher birds as the steel seems to pattern very tightly. The other slightly strange thing is that we eat all our birds and I rarely find a pellet when plucking .Personally I wouldn’t go back to lead.

 

[Tazz]

4 years ago I made the guns on my shoot transition to lead free , some of the earlier steel was poor and resulted in more wounding while the bismuth was good but expensive, I came across some French HP steel that was very effective but could never find a regular supply . Fast forward to last season and now armed with the 32gr dark storm in 3‘s and 4 ‘s found that the birds were more often than not dead when properly shot , I have found that 1/4 choke in both barrels seems to work well even on the higher birds as the steel seems to pattern very tightly. The other slightly strange thing is that we eat all our birds and I rarely find a pellet when plucking .Personally I wouldn’t go back to lead.

Thanks for the explanation, very helpful I think a slab of Dark Storm in steel is the way to go

 

[Bowland blades]

4 years ago I made the guns on my shoot transition to lead free , some of the earlier steel was poor and resulted in more wounding while the bismuth was good but expensive, I came across some French HP steel that was very effective but could never find a regular supply . Fast forward to last season and now armed with the 32gr dark storm in 3‘s and 4 ‘s found that the birds were more often than not dead when properly shot , I have found that 1/4 choke in both barrels seems to work well even on the higher birds as the steel seems to pattern very tightly. The other slightly strange thing is that we eat all our birds and I rarely find a pellet when plucking .Personally I wouldn’t go back to lead.

3 and 4 shot in faster steel will go clean through pheasant. When shooting Pinks and Greylag on the foreshore shooting BBB from the ten and number 1 or BB in the twelve the same happens IF you are within the correct range window and not sky busting

 

[Fowler1990]

If you can use plastic was the eley lightning steel was a firm favourite of mine. Killed cleanly most of the common query, crows pigeons, phesants, duck and geese...
1/4 choke or improved cylinder will give you patterns behaving in a similar way to 1/2 or modified with lead.

 

[Bowland blades]

possibly hit the mail on the head, old guys, with modern attitudes I doubt it would happen, walk round any clay ground and as you say you will see empty cases lying on the ground where the gun can not even be troubled to pick them up and put them in the bin, not a difficult task with a magnetic telescopic stick.

So I just cannot see a gun hunting through trees, brambles, nettles , etc looking for their wads, they will be moving on to the next drive.

You are to be congratulated for picking the wads up, but obviously in the minority, as Denmark demonstrate.

https://www.jaegerforbundet.dk/media/18285/dk-study-plastic-wads.pdf

There are other options , my old dog used to pick all my hulls up after an evening or moon flight. He was most put out if one of the double guns came out
in reality shooting driven birds picking wads by human hands is pretty easy , most of the time . Generally in an arc of you up to 30 yards in-front
TBF the issue is mainly one of not caring . I started picking wads when i was shooting a lot of crows and LBB gulls ( the latter while on licence ) from the grounds of my home . Finding how easy a task can be over finding excuses not to try it is the curse