6pt-sika
Well-Known Member
When I was a kid in the mid sixties a Virginia state license had tags for one deer one bear and one turkey period .No such thing as bonus tags then .
The Creedmoor conundrum
- Thread starter wildfowler.250
- Start date
LOVE MY 243 but after 40+ years i will not have one in the cabinet copper bullets are seeing it off so light gun for deer will be a 6.5 or 7mm08 now the creed is superbly accurate and the factory ammo is superb so really look at it as for the hype ignore the idiots. you really do have to get out of your bed to shoot the deer in a forest 200 miles away try the 100gr bullets they really do go well
If I may add a few questions onto this thread rather than start a new one. I'm newly back after a six year break and it seems, already very out of date.
Previously having .243 and absolutely loving the calibre for Fox, Roe, Munty and the very occasional Fallow, reading a few recent threads I had settled on .243 and 6.5CM. Now close to submitting my FAC re-application, it feels worth asking a few questions to make sure I'm definitely making the right choices.
Over the .243; I used to shoot Sako 90g Gamehead out of a Sako A7. Do I understand correctly that with the distinct likelihood of a lead ban, the replacement non-lead options in .243 aren't good?
Over the 6.5CM, I was originally just going .308 but reading the threads suggesting that 6.5CM is as effective as .308 with less recoil, more ammo choice and as good if not better ballistics, thought on face value that 6.5CM might be the better choice. I don't/won't shoot a lot of larger deer and was aiming the .243 as my predominantly foxing rifle and the 6.5CM as my deer rifle. Since I only shoot deer for the table and as said mainly Roe and Munty, minimal carcass damage absolutely plays a key part in my calibre decision.
Thanks in advance for any shared experience / advice
Previously having .243 and absolutely loving the calibre for Fox, Roe, Munty and the very occasional Fallow, reading a few recent threads I had settled on .243 and 6.5CM. Now close to submitting my FAC re-application, it feels worth asking a few questions to make sure I'm definitely making the right choices.
Over the .243; I used to shoot Sako 90g Gamehead out of a Sako A7. Do I understand correctly that with the distinct likelihood of a lead ban, the replacement non-lead options in .243 aren't good?
Over the 6.5CM, I was originally just going .308 but reading the threads suggesting that 6.5CM is as effective as .308 with less recoil, more ammo choice and as good if not better ballistics, thought on face value that 6.5CM might be the better choice. I don't/won't shoot a lot of larger deer and was aiming the .243 as my predominantly foxing rifle and the 6.5CM as my deer rifle. Since I only shoot deer for the table and as said mainly Roe and Munty, minimal carcass damage absolutely plays a key part in my calibre decision.
Thanks in advance for any shared experience / advice
Do you still have the .243W? If so, then why not try it with 80 grain non lead bullets? Pretty sure that there are at least 3 factory options and many more possibilities if you reload. The 243 non lead naysayers were basing much of there bashing on the potential unsuitability of the minimum 100 grain Scottish legislation that has now been amended. Several stalkers on here use non lead 243 to good effect on deer.If I may add a few questions onto this thread rather than start a new one. I'm newly back after a six year break and it seems, already very out of date.
Previously having .243 and absolutely loving the calibre for Fox, Roe, Munty and the very occasional Fallow, reading a few recent threads I had settled on .243 and 6.5CM. Now close to submitting my FAC re-application, it feels worth asking a few questions to make sure I'm definitely making the right choices.
Over the .243; I used to shoot Sako 90g Gamehead out of a Sako A7. Do I understand correctly that with the distinct likelihood of a lead ban, the replacement non-lead options in .243 aren't good?
Over the 6.5CM, I was originally just going .308 but reading the threads suggesting that 6.5CM is as effective as .308 with less recoil, more ammo choice and as good if not better ballistics, thought on face value that 6.5CM might be the better choice. I don't/won't shoot a lot of larger deer and was aiming the .243 as my predominantly foxing rifle and the 6.5CM as my deer rifle. Since I only shoot deer for the table and as said mainly Roe and Munty, minimal carcass damage absolutely plays a key part in my calibre decision.
Thanks in advance for any shared experience / advice
They all work.
CM just like the rest. Lots of marketing hype backed up by some pretty weak ammunition. It’s not as flexible as the 308, I have loaded between 110gr and 208gr and shot everything in Scotland with the 308.
CM does the same job but 140ish grain max.
Getting the right rifle for you is more important than the diameter of the hole IMO.
Given Landmark have just banned the bloody thing off their ranges I would have been better off with a 308.
CM just like the rest. Lots of marketing hype backed up by some pretty weak ammunition. It’s not as flexible as the 308, I have loaded between 110gr and 208gr and shot everything in Scotland with the 308.
CM does the same job but 140ish grain max.
Getting the right rifle for you is more important than the diameter of the hole IMO.
Given Landmark have just banned the bloody thing off their ranges I would have been better off with a 308.
swagger700
Well-Known Member
I used me 6.5 creed last week with the 114gr yew tree , were devastating on big hill stags out to 250yards. Thought about prc but what I've got seems to be in a sweet spot
Owning .243, 6.5cm and .308......The 6.5cm pretty much does the job of both (I don't night-shoot foxes).....That would be a good starting point IMHO.If I may add a few questions onto this thread rather than start a new one. I'm newly back after a six year break and it seems, already very out of date.
Previously having .243 and absolutely loving the calibre for Fox, Roe, Munty and the very occasional Fallow, reading a few recent threads I had settled on .243 and 6.5CM. Now close to submitting my FAC re-application, it feels worth asking a few questions to make sure I'm definitely making the right choices.
Over the .243; I used to shoot Sako 90g Gamehead out of a Sako A7. Do I understand correctly that with the distinct likelihood of a lead ban, the replacement non-lead options in .243 aren't good?
Over the 6.5CM, I was originally just going .308 but reading the threads suggesting that 6.5CM is as effective as .308 with less recoil, more ammo choice and as good if not better ballistics, thought on face value that 6.5CM might be the better choice. I don't/won't shoot a lot of larger deer and was aiming the .243 as my predominantly foxing rifle and the 6.5CM as my deer rifle. Since I only shoot deer for the table and as said mainly Roe and Munty, minimal carcass damage absolutely plays a key part in my calibre decision.
Thanks in advance for any shared experience / advice
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
243? Now that in Scotland we can use 80gn bullets on all deer, the fundamental challenge of 243’s not working with monolithics is pretty much removed.
With the 100gn min bullet weight there were a few options - Peregrine Bush Master flat nose. It hits like a truck and perfectly good to 200m, but its not a sleek pointy bullet.
Going down a bullet weight to the 80 and 85gn you now have plenty of monolithic options with bullets that will penetrate well and cause a good wound channel right the way through. They start with substantially more velocity and energy than the 100gn bullets and the swap over will happen well beyond where it actually matters.
One thing that may let down a 243 is a barrel that has been cut down to well below 20”. Velocity will drop off unless you use a powder designed for short barrel loads. But same applies to any cartridge.
I have thought long and hard about rebarreling my 243 to 6.5cm and come to the conclusion that in real life I would see little difference on deer and have a significant hole in the bank account.
Given the way monolithics penetrate through deer, and hold together so they do penetrate I am really do not think that a deer will react any different to a 6mm 80gn, a 110gn 6.5 mm or a 7mm 130gn 4 bladed spinning top arriving at 2500fps plus spinning 2000 revolutions per second. Whilst arguably the 7mm will create a slightly bigger diameter hole through the major organs, once they have a catastrophic hole through them the effect is assured.
With the 100gn min bullet weight there were a few options - Peregrine Bush Master flat nose. It hits like a truck and perfectly good to 200m, but its not a sleek pointy bullet.
Going down a bullet weight to the 80 and 85gn you now have plenty of monolithic options with bullets that will penetrate well and cause a good wound channel right the way through. They start with substantially more velocity and energy than the 100gn bullets and the swap over will happen well beyond where it actually matters.
One thing that may let down a 243 is a barrel that has been cut down to well below 20”. Velocity will drop off unless you use a powder designed for short barrel loads. But same applies to any cartridge.
I have thought long and hard about rebarreling my 243 to 6.5cm and come to the conclusion that in real life I would see little difference on deer and have a significant hole in the bank account.
Given the way monolithics penetrate through deer, and hold together so they do penetrate I am really do not think that a deer will react any different to a 6mm 80gn, a 110gn 6.5 mm or a 7mm 130gn 4 bladed spinning top arriving at 2500fps plus spinning 2000 revolutions per second. Whilst arguably the 7mm will create a slightly bigger diameter hole through the major organs, once they have a catastrophic hole through them the effect is assured.
problem with the 243 is the correct twist weight for copper basically it will need a custom twist barrel. short barrel rifles are better in 308 win but if you are shooting at slightly longer range the 6.5 is better(i never go over 300yds and that is still a long shot for me)over clear fell,,If I may add a few questions onto this thread rather than start a new one. I'm newly back after a six year break and it seems, already very out of date.
Previously having .243 and absolutely loving the calibre for Fox, Roe, Munty and the very occasional Fallow, reading a few recent threads I had settled on .243 and 6.5CM. Now close to submitting my FAC re-application, it feels worth asking a few questions to make sure I'm definitely making the right choices.
Over the .243; I used to shoot Sako 90g Gamehead out of a Sako A7. Do I understand correctly that with the distinct likelihood of a lead ban, the replacement non-lead options in .243 aren't good?
Over the 6.5CM, I was originally just going .308 but reading the threads suggesting that 6.5CM is as effective as .308 with less recoil, more ammo choice and as good if not better ballistics, thought on face value that 6.5CM might be the better choice. I don't/won't shoot a lot of larger deer and was aiming the .243 as my predominantly foxing rifle and the 6.5CM as my deer rifle. Since I only shoot deer for the table and as said mainly Roe and Munty, minimal carcass damage absolutely plays a key part in my calibre decision.
Thanks in advance for any shared experience / advice
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
No you dont need a custom barrel for 243 to shoot copper bullets. There are plenty of 80 to 90 gn bullets that work very well in standard twist rates.
It’s only if you want to shoot greater than 100 gn bullets that you need a faster twist rate.
Envillegc1
Well-Known Member
Answer is 6mm Creedmoor.
I have a 6.5 and its a fussy little so and so.
I have a 6.5 and its a fussy little so and so.
Do you know why they have banned them?
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
80gn Fox.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
I can legally take up to 7 White-Tails , 1 Moose , 1 Elk , up to 2 Mule Deer ( more if I apply for special draws ) 1 Bighorn Sheep , Bison , 2 Black Bears , unlimited Wolves ( I don't shoot Wolves unless they're a problem ) , Cougar , Coyote , Foxes and various other things ......................... and we don't wear orange . That's more meat than I can ever eat . I don't think most people know how much the US and Canadian hunting opportunities vary from one part of the country to another .
AB
6.5-06 TIKKA
Well-Known Member
I believe Tikka 243 come in 1 in 8 twists...
I have .223, .6.5cm , .308, and 300WM
.223 does for Charlie fox.
I love all 3 of the larger calibres, but the only thing I reach for when I'm stalking anywhere is the 6.5cm, because it's accurate, flat, so far less dialing etc, less recoil, huge range of accessible ammo for different uses. I've used mine for target comps as well.
Given you have a .222, 6 5cm would be my choice of those referenced elsewhere and your stated use.
TBH if I was starting again, I'd not bother with my .308, as the creed does everything my .308 can do, but better/ less recoil.
.223 does for Charlie fox.
I love all 3 of the larger calibres, but the only thing I reach for when I'm stalking anywhere is the 6.5cm, because it's accurate, flat, so far less dialing etc, less recoil, huge range of accessible ammo for different uses. I've used mine for target comps as well.
Given you have a .222, 6 5cm would be my choice of those referenced elsewhere and your stated use.
TBH if I was starting again, I'd not bother with my .308, as the creed does everything my .308 can do, but better/ less recoil.
6pt-sika
Well-Known Member
I’ve never taken more than twenty deer in a season of which some of that was damage control permits . A lot of what I kill is processed and used for lunch at the shop , sometimes lunch may be as many as 6-10 folks . Also provide venison for social dinners at a couple of the Vintage Sporting Clays Shoots . But by myself at home in the course of a year I can consume as many as six deer a pile of pheasants and a bunch of partridge dove an quail . I believe in your situation the elk and moose would be my main objectives I really really like elk , but rarely have any . I’ve only had moose twice and found it almost as tastey as moose . Just to put it in perspective we’ve got a quite large seasonal bag limit in Virginia , but next door in the small state of Maryland you can take level whitetail with ML eleven more with gun and unlimited doe with the bow as well as nine Sika in the three seasons combined . If I had forty prime acres in Dorchester County MD I’d never kill another whitetail the possible nine Sika a year would keep me well fed .
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