what do i have to defend i can shoot can you bud its very clear that there are a lot of members who are not good shooters this is very evident by very close shooting not having the time nor the skill to shoot further as griff pointed out a miss at 50yards is the same at 500 a hit at 50 is the same as500 the laws of gun control are what you pull the trigger round leves the barrel going in the directon your pointing at at 50yards you can still pull the shot at 500yards yes the same roul apliyes but at 500 you have drop and wind deflecton thats why balistik calculators were invented to put the round where you dialed in long rainge shooting is not iresponcable its an art your going to tell me that all the bence rest shooters are crap shots and iresponcable no your next coment is they are shooting paper targets not deer and thats diffrent yes a deer can move but so can the one at 50yards and 150yards and every rainge you shoot at so what is the diffrence you can do it or you cant and for every member out there if you dont push the envelope how can you be better shots thats what marksmanship is all about and to be a good deer stalker you have to be abble to hit the target time after time in every conditon rain sleat snow i must put at least 50rounds a week down my gun i dont drink dont smoke dont do drugs i shoot then shoot some more am i a bad person no id help eney one so for all the self rigous ones out there that think i should not have a licence as i push the hunting envelope sit back read your shooting times vote lots of gun legislaton and maike it harder for people to get in to shooting in the beleafe that your right in every thing you do best of luck in killing your own sport
whats the longest shot you have ever taiken on a deer
- Thread starter wraith
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Sam
Well-Known Member
Wraith,
Surely the point of Deer Stalking is to actually stalk the deer - not use it as a living target to prove to your mates who much better of a shot you are than they! Surely once the deer is stalked then your job is to dispatch the beast as quickly and humanley as possible. YOur approach seems that of some I have heard from varminters, purely a more difficult target than paper. And yes I have tried shooting at distance, a 600m fox stays in my mind.
Sam
Surely the point of Deer Stalking is to actually stalk the deer - not use it as a living target to prove to your mates who much better of a shot you are than they! Surely once the deer is stalked then your job is to dispatch the beast as quickly and humanley as possible. YOur approach seems that of some I have heard from varminters, purely a more difficult target than paper. And yes I have tried shooting at distance, a 600m fox stays in my mind.
Sam
This site is starting to concern me ?
csl
Administrator
One last try...
wraith, you say you want to take long range shots because you want more of a challenge.
And again, here you are saying you intend to take more long range shots because you know you can do 'close stuff':
More challenging = more difficult = more margin for error. It's not about 'pushing the envelope' or tests of marksmanship, these are living creatures and you owe it to them to make the shot as easy (and UN-challenging
) as possible for yourself in order to minimise the risk of a screw up.
I can't think of any more ways to say the same thing.
Alex
wraith, you say you want to take long range shots because you want more of a challenge.
And again, here you are saying you intend to take more long range shots because you know you can do 'close stuff':
More challenging = more difficult = more margin for error. It's not about 'pushing the envelope' or tests of marksmanship, these are living creatures and you owe it to them to make the shot as easy (and UN-challenging
) as possible for yourself in order to minimise the risk of a screw up.I can't think of any more ways to say the same thing.
Alex
As someone who has culls to achieve I can tell you in the real world you need to shoot deer when you see them and there are in your ability.
Time wasted stalking in to 40m when you could of shot them at 250m means you shoot less deer. This is why the UK has a deer problem too many people are too concerned about the sport and not enough about management.
In answer to wraiths question,
I will happily head shoot in good conditions out to 200m and chest shoot to 350m.
This seasons memorable shots so far have been,
Muntjac Low neck shot prone at 264m
Roe Doe Kid chest shot kneeling at 189m
Fallow doe head shot at 304m
Most people culling profesinally will shoot out to 250-300m routinely, and the abilty to shoot cleanly at these ranges is why we get invited all over the country to help people achieve their culls. The differance is we are all shooting 100's of deer every year.
Time wasted stalking in to 40m when you could of shot them at 250m means you shoot less deer. This is why the UK has a deer problem too many people are too concerned about the sport and not enough about management.
In answer to wraiths question,
I will happily head shoot in good conditions out to 200m and chest shoot to 350m.
This seasons memorable shots so far have been,
Muntjac Low neck shot prone at 264m
Roe Doe Kid chest shot kneeling at 189m
Fallow doe head shot at 304m
Most people culling profesinally will shoot out to 250-300m routinely, and the abilty to shoot cleanly at these ranges is why we get invited all over the country to help people achieve their culls. The differance is we are all shooting 100's of deer every year.
Gazza,
I agree, stalking to you is getting close and that is your ideal when it comes to deer stalking ,that might however not be some one elses view or perception.
My view is this, if you are shooting animals at distance then you have a duty to do it as cleanly as possible, The idea that shooting at distance is not feasable is archaic, with the advent of modern equipment boundaries are being pushed further.
10 years ago the thought of a 300yds+ shot was thought outrageous, now we have rangefinders,PMII'S
moderators which are still frowned upon in certain corners,high BC bullets designed for long range,modern stocks,tactical bipods the list is growing by the day.
All in all it is down to the individuals capabilities, and for some even 200yds is pushing it, but I do not critisize their competence.
SAM,
The difference between a deer stalker and a long range shooter is this:I you asked him how far was that, the reply would not be 230 ish, it would be an exact figure.
I could quite easily say that anyone who cannot shoot a 1" group @ 100yds should not be shooting,while it is acceptable in most stalking scenarios it is not acceptable at long range.
Shooting beyond your capabilities and your equipments capabilities is the crux of the matter.Earlier on this thread there was a remark that we should not be shooting beyond 100yds that was someone perception of deer stalking, yet some are quite capable and have shot deer at 200yds or even 350yds yet that is unacceptable to some but not to others.
Everyone's perception of what is their ideal is different, we have to respect that.
regards
griff
I agree, stalking to you is getting close and that is your ideal when it comes to deer stalking ,that might however not be some one elses view or perception.
My view is this, if you are shooting animals at distance then you have a duty to do it as cleanly as possible, The idea that shooting at distance is not feasable is archaic, with the advent of modern equipment boundaries are being pushed further.
10 years ago the thought of a 300yds+ shot was thought outrageous, now we have rangefinders,PMII'S
moderators which are still frowned upon in certain corners,high BC bullets designed for long range,modern stocks,tactical bipods the list is growing by the day.
All in all it is down to the individuals capabilities, and for some even 200yds is pushing it, but I do not critisize their competence.
SAM,
The difference between a deer stalker and a long range shooter is this:I you asked him how far was that, the reply would not be 230 ish, it would be an exact figure.
I could quite easily say that anyone who cannot shoot a 1" group @ 100yds should not be shooting,while it is acceptable in most stalking scenarios it is not acceptable at long range.
Shooting beyond your capabilities and your equipments capabilities is the crux of the matter.Earlier on this thread there was a remark that we should not be shooting beyond 100yds that was someone perception of deer stalking, yet some are quite capable and have shot deer at 200yds or even 350yds yet that is unacceptable to some but not to others.
Everyone's perception of what is their ideal is different, we have to respect that.
regards
griff
On hill stalking it was a requirement to zero the rifle/ shoot at a target set on a tree at 150yds/ if the guest failed he was told his rifle needed zeroing. I am talk of when open sights were the norm. It was into the 70's before that many rifles were fitted with scopes. As someone said on another thread iron sights, usually v notch with elements you clicked up for longer ranges can shoot as accurately as a 2k scope. It is the man behind it. Shooting is down to tecnique and control. The sight picture is not the shot. pulling the trigger is. If that part is wrong it does not matter what you are looking through. Each to his own. He must be comfortable with the shot.
Jim
Jim
If everyone is so busy shooting/culling 100s of deer, it is a wonder they have time to sit around wrighting about there achievments on here ?
Thats because we lay down and shoot a mags worth of them out of a group at 300m not waste time crawling closer.
Thats how I shot and gralloched 4 Reds before breakfast this morning.
I think this sums it up perfectly.
Dawnraider
Well-Known Member
Furthest for me 235 yds on a roe buck,can count on one hand the roes iv'e shot over 180yds usually most at 100yds or less,not got any problem with capable people taking long range shots within reason but Wraith 600yds on a roe even if you're capable is just damn right irresponsible IMO.
Neil.
Neil.
Mannlicher_Stu
Well-Known Member
Griff I have sat back and digested a lot of the replies to this post with more than a passing interest, but not replied, as i wished to see how others perceive what should be done,
What I do see from these posts are that those that partake or hold the view to shoot deer at longer ranges than 150ys+ seem to view them as a target that can be hit and achieved.
Their is no question here that most here can hit targets at excessive ranges up to 600yds inc yourself which you claim in your post in the classified section on the rifle your selling,
What worries me however is the fact that no matter how good of a shot you may be at a stationary target at such ranges and no matter what gadgets one users to calc bullet drop and cross wind etc.
Not one of us here is capable of calc what a deers movement will be in the time it takes for the shooter ( Nut behind the butt) the time taken to release the trigger and lock time and the passage of the bullet to travel the distance in nano seconds and for it to strike at the aiming mark.
Its a point of fact that this takes time to achieve which albiet nano seconds is a moment of measured time.
The question that I put to you all is during that period of time albiet it nano seconds that animal can send a message from its brain to its legs and can move a considerable distance.
From what first appears to be a perfect shot now becomes a beast thats hit in the arse. Now isnt it our duty to minimise those risks from happening and the only way we can do that is shorten the distance between us and what we shoot at, so that is not likely to happen.
Now thats at best I could go into more detail on why we shouldnt, like the possibility of the bullet being defelected by twigs or grass along the way which we cant see through the scope at that distance, but my view by closing the distance between us and our quarry we are doing as much as we can to be mindfull of a clean kill.
Cock ups happens as it is at shorter ranges as none of us are perfect I certainly for one do not wish to be taking pot shots at any animal let alone deer at excessive ranges thats for sure but thats my own personal opinion.
Thanks
Stu
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matt458
Well-Known Member
Hunting is not target shooting. Army snipers who care not a jot if a hit is a wound, engage at long range as it is less likely they will receive effective fire back. Police snipers on the other hand face a different problem, they often have to shoot a suspect who is trying to harm an innocent eg hostage, in this case an accurate surgical hit to the brain stem is required. This is why most police sniper engagements are at less than 100m. This I believe is more the mind-set of the hunter/stalker.
Matt
Matt
JAYB
Super Moderator
Gents,
this appears to be a lively debate over the merits of, and the reasons for long range shooting / stalking, which is good and needs to be discussed. Peoples views and attitudes need to be aired, the pros and cons mulled over. To me at the moment there appears to be a healthy exchange of views, most of which concern the long range shooting aspect and I see no need for admin to get involved. It may well be that the same old stuff keeps getting regurgitated in which case it may be time to call a halt to it.
However the debate is about shooting, not spelling or grammar or name calling, so please bear in mind if this thread does not go forward in an adult manner, then it will not go forward at all. People have a right to their opinions and they have the right to express them, would you ALL please bear this in mind.
John
this appears to be a lively debate over the merits of, and the reasons for long range shooting / stalking, which is good and needs to be discussed. Peoples views and attitudes need to be aired, the pros and cons mulled over. To me at the moment there appears to be a healthy exchange of views, most of which concern the long range shooting aspect and I see no need for admin to get involved. It may well be that the same old stuff keeps getting regurgitated in which case it may be time to call a halt to it.
However the debate is about shooting, not spelling or grammar or name calling, so please bear in mind if this thread does not go forward in an adult manner, then it will not go forward at all. People have a right to their opinions and they have the right to express them, would you ALL please bear this in mind.
John
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bambislayer
Well-Known Member
I am a bit worried that this is turning into a bit of a p****** contest
Anyone who has done any amount of stalking or shooting will spot the inaccuracies and b******* a mile away. These dvd's of long range shooting, are they edited, you wouldn't make much money out of films of deer with broken legs/ backs/ burst guts / broken jaws
Stalking is not about how far you can shoot, stalk, walk or ****
It's about your ability to cleanly kill deer, if you get enjoyment, money, meat after that it's a bonus.
If killing deer at long ranges from vantage points was so efecient then I'd have got a 50cal years ago, it's about knowing the ground the deer and your rifle and spending time on the hill/forest, creeping about, watching deer .
Lets start culling long range shooters, as the only thing they kill is this forum and our reputation
Anyone who has done any amount of stalking or shooting will spot the inaccuracies and b******* a mile away. These dvd's of long range shooting, are they edited, you wouldn't make much money out of films of deer with broken legs/ backs/ burst guts / broken jaws
Stalking is not about how far you can shoot, stalk, walk or ****
It's about your ability to cleanly kill deer, if you get enjoyment, money, meat after that it's a bonus.
If killing deer at long ranges from vantage points was so efecient then I'd have got a 50cal years ago, it's about knowing the ground the deer and your rifle and spending time on the hill/forest, creeping about, watching deer .
Lets start culling long range shooters, as the only thing they kill is this forum and our reputation
Moonraker68
Well-Known Member
I've shot reds on the hill out to about 275 yards, and roe out to 200 yards when I've been on arable ground where it was impossible to get closer. I wouldn't be comfortable taking shots at distances of anything like 600 yards; the margin for error is too great in my opinion. Losing a wounded deer is bloody horrible, and I feel that the risk of this is greater at extreme range....wind drift, gradient, minor differences in load, bipod bounce due to firmness of ground etc can all cause a shot to be an inch or two off target at standard ranges, but this will be magnified greatly at 600+ yards.
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