Which one? 6.5 PRC or 270 WIN

[stubear]

Once you learn your holds/dial there really isn't much to be concerned about. I was actively shooting my 17hmr out beyond 250 yards. I also shoot my 22lr on gongs beyond that. Shouldn't be any mither for any centrefire in all honesty. People can and do frequently shoot extended ranges successfully, they don't sit and argue though, they actually get out of there armchair and go shoot!

I dont disagree - my point was that shooting at a potentially unknown or estimated extended distance in an unknown wind speed in a higher stress environment (long stalk in, tired, wet, heart rate elevated etc.) increases the risk of a shot going wrong.

I've joined up a few of the US hunting pages on FB recently and theres a worryingly large number of people who will post a picture of a fallen beast which you can see has got 3-6 holes in it, holes in the antlers and all sorts with the caption "took my first 800y elk today!!!!". As in I would say I see at least one such post a week, and theres nothing clean or ethical about that

I know there are plenty of people who can and do shoot extended ranges. Guys like Dodgyknees seem to know what they are talking about, but there also seems to be far too many people who think that because they can shoot tiny groups off a bench at a known range in known conditions that somehow equates to being able to shoot deer at extended ranges in the field. Thats my issue.

If you can do it, fine crack on.

 

[stubear]

@stubear, you must have been shooting bricks to have to hold 18" in a 15mph wind at 300yd!

@Edinburgh Rifles, the 6.5 PRC will do a lot better than that with the right powder, out of a 24" barrel.

@Dawnrazor, have a look at the cartridges list in Quickload. It's not like this phenomenon is anything new!

I was - it was the GECO 170gn Teilmantel which is a flat based round nosed bullet with a fairly pants BC.

I hold less than that with Sierra pro hunters, and they shoot much flatter as well. At 600y its a dot less drop on the reticle as compared to the Teilmantel.

 

[Eric the Red]

Better get me order in Quick!

I'm betting on a 6.8PRC.... the question is whether they neck down the 300 or neck up the 6.5 - both interesting options. I've just narrowly avoided ordering a 7mm Prac (7mm-300WM), but been very impressed with the way the one's I've seen have shot.

 

[JH83]

Just caught up on this one. The term ‘I want to get into long range hunting’ puts a shiver down the spine. Why??? Just stick to ringing steel and get as close as you can to deer...then 10 yards closer.

Taking the odd long shot isn’t an issue when culling, when absolutely necessary. Do it myself when I can get no closer, but going out with the specific desire to take a long shot-when it’s probably possible to close the distance is morally reprehensible. Anyone who does a bit of stalking if honest will of had the odd mess up, it happens, but the risk increases exponentially at long range and the chance of a second shot or finding the strike area reduce considerably.

 

[User00033]

Just caught up on this one. The term ‘I want to get into long range hunting’ puts a shiver down the spine. Why??? Just stick to ringing steel and get as close as you can to deer...then 10 yards closer.

Taking the odd long shot isn’t an issue when culling, when absolutely necessary. Do it myself when I can get no closer, but going out with the specific desire to take a long shot-when it’s probably possible to close the distance is morally reprehensible. Anyone who does a bit of stalking if honest will of had the odd mess up, it happens, but the risk increases exponentially at long range and the chance of a second shot or finding the strike area reduce considerably.

Yawn, boring, ignorant. You don’t practice the discipline, you’ve not got a clue what you’re talking about and you should honestly just keep quiet. It’s insulting actually, if you had any idea of the work that goes into the discipline you’d have a different view.

 

[JH83]

Yawn, boring, ignorant. You don’t practice the discipline, you’ve not got a clue what you’re talking about and you should honestly just keep quiet. It’s insulting actually, if you had any idea of the work that goes into the discipline you’d have a different view.

Ignorant? Because I don’t get my rocks off taking long shots for fun? At least I’m not a Chris Kyle wannabe. Do we know each other, because you are making some serious assumptions, like I say happy to shoot at long range when I’m out culling (3/4 days a week currently) but only if necessary not as some macho bravado B.S, and I certainly don’t leave the house with the intention of doing so. I’m also on the range hitting steel pretty frequently too.

Like I say starting out stalking as a newbie with the intention of taking long shots is something I can’t reconcile. If it’s something you are forced to do to achieve big culls, and you’ve several hundred beasts under your belt and thousands of rounds in practice, so be it.

I hope the OP has got a good dog, he’s going to need it.

 

[User00033]

Read the whole thread, read the fella’s other threads. You’re lashing out at stuff you haven’t taken the time to understand. I’ve been talking to this fella privately, he”s a good bloke with his head screwed on the right way, wanting to do the right thing, unlike so many armchair executioners on this forum. He’s off on active service now in a place 99% of wetlegs would refuse point blank to go to, so I’ll step up and defend his good intentions in his absence.

Jeez what the fukk has a guy gotta do to get good advice these days without getting 50 lashes for just bloody asking??? Macho bravado BS... listen to yerself. Judgemental, sanctimonious, disparaging, unnecessary.

 

[JH83]

Read the whole thread, read the fella’s other threads. You’re lashing out at stuff you haven’t taken the time to understand. I’ve been talking to this fella privately, he”s a good bloke with his head screwed on the right way, wanting to do the right thing, unlike so many armchair executioners on this forum. He’s off on active service now in a place 99% of wetlegs would refuse point blank to go to, so I’ll step up and defend his good intentions in his absence.

Jeez what the fukk has a guy gotta do to get good advice these days without getting 50 lashes for just bloody asking??? Macho bravado BS... listen to yerself. Judgemental, sanctimonious, disparaging, unnecessary.

Unlike yourself I don’t tend to get into slanging matches on here (you seem to be in one several times a week) but on this one I’m sticking to my guns. If he’d said ‘what’s a good long range set up’....fine. No problem. But he didn’t, he said I want to get into stalking in order to shoot deer at long range. If that wasn’t what he meant, then fair enough, but it IS what was written. It brings the whole sport into disrepute, this is a public forum after all. I know it’s boring but we owe it to deer to close the distance as much as possible because of factors that others have put more eloquently than I. If you want to shoot at long range, go win some silverware.

Agree to disagree, whatever. I’m off shooting now.

 

[johnnyha]

the risk increases exponentially at long range

Doesn't the risk increase in an entirely measurable way, this being the primary point of ballistic data?

 

[25 Sharps]

Had a .270, does a good job, but from a reloading point of view, it's an inefficient round, that requires a lot of powder, to achieve the target velocity, commonly with a 130gr bullet. I got circa 2960fps from 60gr's H4831SC.

How much it kicks, will depend on the ammunition, how well the rifle fits, quality of stock, and how recoil shy you are. I found it was no where near as bad as it's reputation, using a moderator.

I got rid of it in favour of a 6.5x47. An excellent round, but not recommended unless it's target only, or you reload. Factory ammunition is scarce.

That said, loading a 129gr bullet, I achieved circa 60fps more than the 270, using 2/3's the powder. Super accurate, and very light recoil. Circa 3015fps, 43gr's of RS60.

I also have a 6.5CM. I have loaded 143gr ELD-x, but running the numbers through QL, it gives circa 3075 using the same 129gr bullet as the 6.5x47, same powder, but 46gr. It does show this load marginally Pmax, so it would have to be worked up, to see.

Running the 6.5PRC, it definitely favours a heavier bullet. I ran the ELD-X 143gr, and it looks impressive. In very general terms, based on a 24.5" barrel (same as my CM) it's giving circa 3091fps, on 66.2gr of RS76, and showing well below Pmax.

If I were looking for another 6.5, I think the PRC would be top of the list. The 270, wouldn't even make the "possibles"

Personally would say QL figures aren't all that valid for real world comparisons.

I worked up a load for 129s out of my 26"creedmoor, started getting pressure signs at 2880 and 42.2 gr of RS60 QL is often optimistic and rarely bang on the money.

The best figures for comparing cartridges are factory loads from the same manufacturer as that levels the playing field

 

[25 Sharps]

Yawn, boring, ignorant. You don’t practice the discipline, you’ve not got a clue what you’re talking about and you should honestly just keep quiet. It’s insulting actually, if you had any idea of the work that goes into the discipline you’d have a different view.

Fair comment.

But, a lot of people getting into it or saying they want to also do not realise the input and discipline that is required to become a proficient LR shooter and may not actually do so. So some reservations are reasonable, though it shouldn't be automatically ruled out just for what it is.

 

[25 Sharps]

Doesn't the risk increase in an entirely measurable way, this being the primary point of ballistic data?

No, reading the wind is a skill and the wind can change as the ranges push out to, though not really at 5-600 metres, yes drop is entirely predicable but it is generally not drop that causes issues it is poor technique and wind.

 

[25 Sharps]

There are a few shops online that supply Hornady ELD and ELD-X factory ammo, but so far i have found only 3 that supply. all around £45-65 for a box of 20, not cheap!

I am certainly conscious of the implications of hunting at long range and the lack of margin for error, hence why I would want to eliminate variables with a higher performing round. Wounding a deer is not on the cards!

Energy will buy you some leeway but unless you put in A LOT of practice and then some more in all conditions then shooting at 500-600 yards a wounded deer is definitely on the cards, if reloading in not an option due to cost then neither is buying enough ammunition to get the practice you need!

 

[JH83]

No, reading the wind is a skill and the wind can change as the ranges push out to, though not really at 5-600 metres, yes drop is entirely predicable but it is generally not drop that causes issues it is poor technique and wind.

And things like marking the shot, administering a coup de grace, animal movement, the inability to see branches covering vitals that are unknown entities

 

[25 Sharps]

And things like marking the shot, administering a coup de grace, animal movement, the inability to see branches covering vitals that are unknown entities

Why would you not be able to see a branch?

 

[JH83]

Why would you not be able to see a branch?

because it’s hard to see little branches at 600 yards

 

[rem284]

because it’s hard to see little branches at 600 yards

Not if you have the right equipment. Or pick the correct situation. Just because someone has geared themselves up and done alot of practice have the confidence and competence to shoot at a distance that others might not shoot at doesn't mean to say they will shoot if circumstances does not allow or are conducive to what they want, dead deer.

I have seen more people wound more deer at short range than what I have seen people shoot deer at longer ranges. This is largely because the ones I seen wound deer at short range was not doing a lot of shooting throughout the year. The ones I have seen doing the long range stuff have done a lot more regular shooting and prep and their equipment is top notch and up to the job.

 

[JH83]

Not if you have the right equipment. Or pick the correct situation. Just because someone has geared themselves up and done alot of practice have the confidence and competence to shoot at a distance that others might not shoot at doesn't mean to say they will shoot if circumstances does not allow or are conducive to what they want, dead deer.

I have seen more people wound more deer at short range than what I have seen people shoot deer at longer ranges. This is largely because the ones I seen wound deer at short range was not doing a lot of shooting throughout the year. The ones I have seen doing the long range stuff have done a lot more regular shooting and prep and their equipment is top notch and up to the job.

For fear of repeating myself I don’t find long range culling offensive in general, the OP admitted he is fairly green, doesn’t want to reload etc etc, but wants to shoot long range deer. That is puzzling to me.

 

[rem284]

Well, at least he is asking for advice. Given his career he might have some relative training. Just recommend shooting within the capabilities of self, equipment and conditions.

 

[Heym SR20]

This video just popped into my YouTube suggestions. Probably just adds further confusion. My only comment is that choice of rifle and scope are possibly more important than calibre per se. You need an accurate rilfe, and a scope with very reliable turrets and / or reticle. Most important is lots of trigger time.