That sounds strange for Scotland, haven't heard that
There's quite a lot of ornaments sat in cabinets that cost serious amount of cash and never see the light of day.
Mostly blasers ...
There, I said it.
Beginner Advice/How to start/Getting an FAC
- Thread starter TheDeerWalker
- Start date
Mostly blasers ...
There, I said it.
I'd say it's also worth having the convo with the land owner around what they would want to see reduction wise, are there lots of deer in which case a game dealer may be needed or set up of own business or is it a small amount where they are happy you do what you think is right with regards to numbers, either way it's not a waste of money if you enjoy it
DevonRifle
Well-Known Member
Your farmer is your main target. Don’t be put off by land that is hard to get into, once you are in others will find it hard to get you out!
If foxes are his issue then get a shotgun licence, you won’t need land for that, start proving your worth and win him over. It sounds like a permission worth the effort.
If foxes are his issue then get a shotgun licence, you won’t need land for that, start proving your worth and win him over. It sounds like a permission worth the effort.
Talk to some of the guys that shoot clays/rifle there. I know some of them are stalkers.
That's how I started, I just tagged along with a couple of clay shooting mates, found out who may have a slot for a rifle in a syndicate and away you go. It's about trust really. Nobody wants to have a ****er in their syndicate but otherwise people are generally helpful.
Ok , here is how you could best move forward
1. book a few stalks with various folks using the " estate rifle " this is without FAC . it will allow you to sample the sport for real , gain credibility towards your fac and learn some about the how to bit .
2. Apply for your own FAC . Reason for use is as above and have a future booking for a dsc1 course ( many forces ask for this and it really isnt a bad thing to do )
3. complete your DSC1 , decide on the merits of booking level 2 . IMO and my practice i believe in constantly updating and gaining more knowledge every year
4. After some reasonable experience in the field book your level 2 as when that chance of a personal lease comes up or a contract opportunity comes up you can dive on it
Good luck i don't doubt there will be weird and wonderful suggestions made through this thread though, that is to be expected
1. book a few stalks with various folks using the " estate rifle " this is without FAC . it will allow you to sample the sport for real , gain credibility towards your fac and learn some about the how to bit .
2. Apply for your own FAC . Reason for use is as above and have a future booking for a dsc1 course ( many forces ask for this and it really isnt a bad thing to do )
3. complete your DSC1 , decide on the merits of booking level 2 . IMO and my practice i believe in constantly updating and gaining more knowledge every year
4. After some reasonable experience in the field book your level 2 as when that chance of a personal lease comes up or a contract opportunity comes up you can dive on it
Good luck i don't doubt there will be weird and wonderful suggestions made through this thread though, that is to be expected
TheDeerWalker
Well-Known Member
Thank you, I was mulling it over last night about the idea of just doing the paid stalks and not worrying about the FAC, but I just kept coming back to not wanting that to be my only option or having to be depandant on someone else running a business. Plus while the initial investment is high it would get to a point that keep booking paid stalks would have gone past the finanically sensible stage. Plus it's a hobby, and like you say it's not a waste of money if you enjoy it.
TheDeerWalker
Well-Known Member
Cheers, I sent them an email last night. Hopefully they come back to me.
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
I'd take a two tier approach to this.
You definitely want to gain the trust of your landowner and the land sounds like it has good shooting prospects, be it fox/rabbit or deer.
Paid stalks are a good way of evidencing competence, in spite of your FEO's negative comments, as evidencing experience is mainly what is asked for when applying for an FAC, along with good reason.
In tandem with paid stalks, irrespective of which way you decide to go with the FAC (or not), get yourself signed up to do your DSC1. You'll both learn a lot and when done, you'll be in a better position to speak with a little more knowledge (and if paid stalks are done) and experience when chatting to the farmer.
When I started out many moons back, my landowner was much the same. Plentiful shooting opportunity on his land but he was uncomfortable with anyone shooting over it, for two main reasons. Firstly, he had been soured by the attitudes and behaviour of shooting syndicates bordering his land who were often straying onto his land without permission to pick up pheasant and secondly, he valued the ecology and balance of wildlife. I approached this carefully in the most positive way I could. I helped him "police" his boundaries to ensure that neighbouring shoots didn't stray where they weren't meant to be and also spent 18 months conducting a deer study to get a realistic picture of what the effects of the deer population were. The results were a bit of an eye opener to him. Deer were damaging quite a bit of valuable arable each year by forming bedding circles within the crops to ruminate and to bed down. The cost was significant in lost revenue. Secondly, there was growing evidence that smaller species, mainly munty were harming some of the rarer flora on his land which he couldn't fence off...too impractical. I convinced him that to keep numbers below that which would cause significant revenue harm and to ensure a healthy population, numbers needed reducing. Not by much, but perhaps half a dozen annually.
That, and fox control swayed it in the end. I wasn't pushy and always approached the subject only when something positive might come out of the discussion which invariably meant having facts to hand. This won't happen overnight. By completing a DSC1 and also getting insurance, he had some comfort that any unlikely accident, be it to property or to livestock, was covered at no cost to him. I also took him around his land pointing out likely good spots for ambush shooting deer, where good backstops were present, all well away from public footpaths. As a result, I finally got permission to shoot for deer, fox and smaller vermin species on his land using centrefire rifles.
If you want the easy route in via paid stalking to get the experience, that will cost you a reasonable amount, combined with DSC1, especially if you increase the number of stalks each year. If you want the less expensive option, it will cost you time and effort (and tact). You'll probably find the right balance is a combination of both approaches and by doing both you're more likely to satisfy your FEO as well due to the evidential aspects, knowledge and experience you can bring to your application.
You definitely want to gain the trust of your landowner and the land sounds like it has good shooting prospects, be it fox/rabbit or deer.
Paid stalks are a good way of evidencing competence, in spite of your FEO's negative comments, as evidencing experience is mainly what is asked for when applying for an FAC, along with good reason.
In tandem with paid stalks, irrespective of which way you decide to go with the FAC (or not), get yourself signed up to do your DSC1. You'll both learn a lot and when done, you'll be in a better position to speak with a little more knowledge (and if paid stalks are done) and experience when chatting to the farmer.
When I started out many moons back, my landowner was much the same. Plentiful shooting opportunity on his land but he was uncomfortable with anyone shooting over it, for two main reasons. Firstly, he had been soured by the attitudes and behaviour of shooting syndicates bordering his land who were often straying onto his land without permission to pick up pheasant and secondly, he valued the ecology and balance of wildlife. I approached this carefully in the most positive way I could. I helped him "police" his boundaries to ensure that neighbouring shoots didn't stray where they weren't meant to be and also spent 18 months conducting a deer study to get a realistic picture of what the effects of the deer population were. The results were a bit of an eye opener to him. Deer were damaging quite a bit of valuable arable each year by forming bedding circles within the crops to ruminate and to bed down. The cost was significant in lost revenue. Secondly, there was growing evidence that smaller species, mainly munty were harming some of the rarer flora on his land which he couldn't fence off...too impractical. I convinced him that to keep numbers below that which would cause significant revenue harm and to ensure a healthy population, numbers needed reducing. Not by much, but perhaps half a dozen annually.
That, and fox control swayed it in the end. I wasn't pushy and always approached the subject only when something positive might come out of the discussion which invariably meant having facts to hand. This won't happen overnight. By completing a DSC1 and also getting insurance, he had some comfort that any unlikely accident, be it to property or to livestock, was covered at no cost to him. I also took him around his land pointing out likely good spots for ambush shooting deer, where good backstops were present, all well away from public footpaths. As a result, I finally got permission to shoot for deer, fox and smaller vermin species on his land using centrefire rifles.
If you want the easy route in via paid stalking to get the experience, that will cost you a reasonable amount, combined with DSC1, especially if you increase the number of stalks each year. If you want the less expensive option, it will cost you time and effort (and tact). You'll probably find the right balance is a combination of both approaches and by doing both you're more likely to satisfy your FEO as well due to the evidential aspects, knowledge and experience you can bring to your application.
TheDeerWalker
Well-Known Member
Hi ChesterP,
Thanks for the message, that sounds like the situation i'm in, Farmer is a great guy and I get on with him well but he just wants to make sure all is good and safe.
I'm not in a crazy rush to get the FAC and start doing solo stalks in the slightest, and money will be of consideration. I think my next steps is to look for Stalks in Central Scotland or not to far drive - tbh for the first couple of outings I don't even care about taking the shot, just want to witness, learn and experience it. Can't be dealing with the likes of Gleneagles costs (family friend paid around £1000 for a Roe Buck stalk, which is why I didn't like the idea of paid stalks!!!) so will keep my eye out for someone I can follow and learn from that isn't going to cost a lot. Then I'll look at the DSC and maybe the FAC.
Cheers everyone, very interesting forum and definitely opened my eyes to other options.
Thanks
Can i please clarify that stalking especially in Scotland does not have to be or even normally be expensive . Sure some venues are and i guarantee you that even on those type that do charge big money there will be a couple of folks who get on for free and others that pay very little and some that get paid to reduce the population .
TheDeerWalker
Well-Known Member
I'm sure it isn't crazy expensive, and to Dave_45's point I have heard that kind of pricing before. But, my issue, and the purpose of the thread was more or less fact finding as to how to best approach getting into this in a cost effective manner. I'm new to the area and the sport, so don't know people to use word of mouth reccomendations, which I'm sure would get me the outcome, so I have had to rely on google which only has the really expensive estates that run it as a business. I don't want you to think I'm bad mouthing Scottish stalking by saying it's expensive and unobtainable, just more asking how you go about building the network.
I'm going to concentrate my sights on getting some guided stalks (with or without the actual shooting bit)
In Short, over time and building a mates network . I am very lucky to live in a good area ( as it seems you now do also) . As a Knifemaker who specializes in deerstalking knives with hundreds of clients ( many of which are great mates now) doesn't hurt either! Fox and crow control , beating , genral game shooting etc all help and don't forget to return those favors into the future ( even if you are not able to do so in terms of hunt swaps yet).
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chaz243
Well-Known Member
I would agree with Mick but would just add that the dsc1 is a very good starting point and a feather iin your cap for any future FAC application..You can find guided stalks on here for varied prices and abilities. We do some fallow days here in Sussex at 100 per outing and nearly always get a beast in the larder Not suggestion you emigrate but just an idea of cost good luck . C
TheDeerWalker
Well-Known Member
No you are all right, I had it in my head the FAC came first then the stalking. It makes it easier to know that the training courses and stalks can be before the FAC and aide with that. I'm looking to get onto the DSC when one comes up in my area. Another question given the richness of knowledge in this group. The FEO (spoke to the right person this time!) suggest the idea of doing a Rifle safety course, or Firearms course for beginners would be a good idea, I'm going to start looking into them now, but curious if anyone had done one, and the thoughts behind it. Also are they the kind of thing a rifle club would offer?
Cheers
Training courses aren't compulsory, but doing some will not only help you learn new skills, but also demonstrate your commitment.
Something like this, next time it runs:
Marksmanship training days with Bradley Bourner, Cumbria, 18th & 19th June
Open to all - the BDS North West Branch and Forestry Commission are pleased to offer Best Practice courses on firearm familiarisation and marksmanship delivered by Bradley Bourner of Pro Sporting Solutions. The venue is the Graythwaite estate in the South Lakes between 08.30 to 16:30 on both...
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk
DevonRifle
Well-Known Member
If you’re in Ashdown, Devon then it’s not been my experience. I had a mentor 3 years ago. Might have changed since.
Hi, it has been mentioned on here by numerous members that DSC1 is a good way forward. do you use a computer,notebook or smart phone as when I took my DSC1 course years ago I did not know anybody who had it and learned a great deal on the course only to find the others had been on the computer for months looking at the various sites that asked the questions and gave the answers that you will have to answer when you take yours. I was on a very steep learning curve on mine!
There is a lot to learn but over time it is much easier. It is easier eg. to recognise the 6 species of deer in this country from good pictures not just the perhaps poor ones on a course paper.
If there are some game fairs near you this summer try and see the Gamekeepers stand for the insurance and possibly some of the gamekeepers who may work near you and you could offer to work for them just for the experience and say you are willing to learn.
You mentioned your farmer friend, he may well be greatful if you were to reduce some of his vermin, grey squirrels, rabbits, magpies, crows, rooks, wood pigeons or rats around the barns with a 12ftlbs air rifle i.e. non FAC one that would get you started, learn to shoot, practise field craft and gun control. that is probably why the FEO suggested you get a .22lr first to learn the basics. you could really do with a mentor I am sure you will find one locally.
I wish you the best of luck.
There is a lot to learn but over time it is much easier. It is easier eg. to recognise the 6 species of deer in this country from good pictures not just the perhaps poor ones on a course paper.
If there are some game fairs near you this summer try and see the Gamekeepers stand for the insurance and possibly some of the gamekeepers who may work near you and you could offer to work for them just for the experience and say you are willing to learn.
You mentioned your farmer friend, he may well be greatful if you were to reduce some of his vermin, grey squirrels, rabbits, magpies, crows, rooks, wood pigeons or rats around the barns with a 12ftlbs air rifle i.e. non FAC one that would get you started, learn to shoot, practise field craft and gun control. that is probably why the FEO suggested you get a .22lr first to learn the basics. you could really do with a mentor I am sure you will find one locally.
I wish you the best of luck.
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