Asked for evidence of competency... Is this normal?

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

Would you be so kind as to inform me when Form 30 was introduced ?
I'm only asking because when my Certificate was granted I was never asked to provide said evidence pertaining to Form 30.

 

[jimmer.13]

Just have the equivalent of the second amendment, tweak a few trespass laws etc.
No more FEO’s or HO guidelines just an polite armed society.

A booming sporting industry ( no pun intended)

What’s not to like for all us involved in shooting and hunting in what ever form.

I shall enjoy reading the inevitable melt downs.

 

[Jeff8861]

Would you be so kind as to inform me when Form 30 was introduced ?
I'm only asking because when my Certificate was granted I was never asked to provide said evidence pertaining to Form 30.

Years ago you would have been asked on your grant home visit to provide some evidence whether it's documented or verbal on what you know and understand about the safe use of firearms. For example basic do and don'ts. How can the feo assess your not a danger to the public if they don't ask you. Is this not a common sense approach. Would you authorise someone when they couldn't tell you anything about safe handling and understanding

 

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

Years ago you would have been asked on your grant home visit to provide some evidence whether it's documented or verbal on what you know and understand about the safe use of firearms. For example basic do and don'ts. How can the feo assess your not a danger to the public if they don't ask you.

Nope, never asked anything like that.

 

[Liveonce]

As for the idea that just because somebody has been doing something for 30 odd years he is safe and competent, in plenty of other activities it is well understood that time leads to complacency and then accidents happen.

So then the conclusion is every year we need a medical examination report and must pass a competence exam to ensure we have not become complacent.

My god what a country we are becoming, best not give anybody a licence for fear of an accident.

The truth is it is a very safe sport where safety is your responsibility, and for section 1 firearms Home Office approved Clubs are the way in for the majority and for section 2 the majority probably enter the sport via clay shooting.
others are probably farmers or taken under the wing of their father, grandfather etc.

edit to add we have been shooting long before safe shooter cards, running around with loaded pistols drawing from holsters shooting practical pistol corses and i would bet statistically over the last 50years accident have been very few.

 

[Jeff8861]

Nope, never asked anything like that.

How long ago was that. I find it very hard to believe that an feo hasn't asked you that question in some way. Or you came out and volunteered the answer. The feo documents your responses of Form 30 which is vital if things go pair shaped down the line. In addition a manager or supervisor then interphase Form 30 before they authorise. If there zero info in the safe handling expirence section the feo would need to account for this.

 

[Jeff8861]

Nope, never asked anything like that.

Does what I'm saying make any sense to you.

 

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

How long ago was that. I find it very hard to believe that an feo hasn't asked you that question in some way. Or you came out and volunteered the answer. The feo documents your responses of Form 30 which is vital if things go pair shaped down the line. In addition a manager or supervisor then interphase Form 30 before they authorise. If there zero info in the safe handling expirence section the feo would need to account for this.

1985, no FEO, the home visit was carried out by the village bobby.
When was Form 30 introduced ?

 

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

Does what I'm saying make any sense to you.

Yes

 

[Jeff8861]

1985, no FEO, the home visit was carried out by the village bobby.
When was Form 30 introduced ?

Then you have nothing to worry about the op question is regards to a recent grant. The form 30 wasn't out then village bobbies have gone we have moved on

 

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

Then you have nothing to worry about the op question is regards to a recent grant.

I know that.
I was unaware of the existence of Form 30.
My original reply was based on my experience, ie no Form 30

 

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

village bobbies have gone we have moved on

There are still village Bobbie's in parts of Scotland.

 

[Husky]

How long ago was that. I find it very hard to believe that an feo hasn't asked you that question in some way. Or you came out and volunteered the answer. The feo documents your responses of Form 30 which is vital if things go pair shaped down the line. In addition a manager or supervisor then interphase Form 30 before they authorise. If there zero info in the safe handling expirence section the feo would need to account for this.

That's the beauty of this Forum ( and other Forum's ), you very often have no idea who you are conversing with and their history, e.g. Having a FAC for 38 years.

 

[Heym SR20]

So then the conclusion is every year we need a medical examination report and must pass a competence exam to ensure we have not become complacent.

My god what a country we are becoming, best not give anybody a licence for fear of an accident.

The truth is it is a very safe sport where safety is your responsibility, and for section 1 firearms Home Office approved Clubs are the way in for the majority and for section 2 the majority probably enter the sport via clay shooting.
others are probably farmers or taken under the wing of their father, grandfather etc.

edit to add we have been shooting long before safe shooter cards, running around with loaded pistols drawing from holsters shooting practical pistol corses and i would bet statistically over the last 50years accident have been very few.

But we are talking here about a new application for an FAC from somebody who has very limited experience.

 

[kes]

Can someone please post a copy of form 30 or explain why I have not seen it even though it may have been operative since Adam was a lad ?
Ok its for Northern Ireland only and does not mention a separate medical examination merely the normal consent to access records. TA

 

[Liveonce]

But we are talking here about a new application for an FAC from somebody who has very limited experience.

why does limited experience equel unsafe ?
if they have gone the home office approved club way then they will have had to complete a probationary period during which they would have been taught safe gun handling, been mentored by club officers and have an RCO present when shooting.
If they have gone the pest control way then no landowner is going to give them permission to shoot without a firearm and insurance so they must have been introduced to shooting by a family member or friend and again surly that would include safe gun handling and mentoring plus they may be or are moving up from using an airgun.
Surely anybody considering applying for an FAC considers the responsibility that comes with owning a firearm and the requirements to get an FAC, it’s not like you just pop on amazon and buy one.

 

[Heym SR20]

why does limited experience equel unsafe ?
if they have gone the home office approved club way then they will have had to complete a probationary period during which they would have been taught safe gun handling, been mentored by club officers and have an RCO present when shooting.
If they have gone the pest control way then no landowner is going to give them permission to shoot without a firearm and insurance so they must have been introduced to shooting by a family member or friend and again surly that would include safe gun handling and mentoring plus they may be or are moving up from using an airgun.
Surely anybody considering applying for an FAC considers the responsibility that comes with owning a firearm and the requirements to get an FAC, it’s not like you just pop on amazon and buy one.

Agree with what you say. But there have been several cases where a legally held firearm has been used in tragic and criminal circumstances and accidents can and do happen.

 

[Liveonce]

Agree with what you say. But there have been several cases where a legally held firearm has been used in tragic and criminal circumstances and accidents can and do happen.

tragic and criminal is that both ie tragic as in the case of an accident or suicide and criminal as in likes of plymouth?

sadly it may happen the first accident or suicide is likely to be limited to one individual the latter to more than one person.

But without a total ban on legally owned firearms it is impossible to reduce the risk to zero no processes or training will ever do so. Risk is part of everyday life and lets not forget for legally owned firearms we have some if not the toughest firearms controls in the world.

 

[25 Sharps]

It is important.

why does limited experience equel unsafe ?
if they have gone the home office approved club way then they will have had to complete a probationary period during which they would have been taught safe gun handling, been mentored by club officers and have an RCO present when shooting.
If they have gone the pest control way then no landowner is going to give them permission to shoot without a firearm and insurance so they must have been introduced to shooting by a family member or friend and again surly that would include safe gun handling and mentoring plus they may be or are moving up from using an airgun.
Surely anybody considering applying for an FAC considers the responsibility that comes with owning a firearm and the requirements to get an FAC, it’s not like you just pop on amazon and buy one.

Club route teaches nothing about safety in the field, backstop, ricochet or shot placement on an animal, in reality not transferable to field shooting at all other than safe handling of a firearm.

Field shooting could just be sun 12 air rifle, most air rifle shots I know think nothing of shooting birds off of wires or trees, or rabbits in hedgerows. Things that shouldn’t be done with any section 1 rifle that burns powder.

As for anybody applying for an FAC considering the responsibility that’s probably true for the majority but are those who just want to own firearms and not always for the right reasons.

I personally feel that the police considering the experience of the applicant is very valid and actually quite important!

 

[badmolassesaccident]

why does limited experience equel unsafe ?
if they have gone the home office approved club way then they will have had to complete a probationary period during which they would have been taught safe gun handling, been mentored by club officers and have an RCO present when shooting.
If they have gone the pest control way then no landowner is going to give them permission to shoot without a firearm and insurance so they must have been introduced to shooting by a family member or friend and again surly that would include safe gun handling and mentoring plus they may be or are moving up from using an airgun.

Anyone who has completed the probation period at a Home Office approved club will have at a minimum, basic safety knowledge.

But you only need evidence of paid hunting/stalking bookings to get a FAC via the lawful quarry route. Although as pointed out above, you may still not know about backstops or ricochet risks.

You could still end up with an FAC, rifle and ammo having never previously touched a firearm. You could be messing with it in your lounge room before your first paid outing and send a round through your wall across the street and through your neighbours wall.