Asked for evidence of competency... Is this normal?

accept all what you are saying but those obtaining an FAC via the club route will not have it conditioned for anything other than target shooting.

Do we not read of people granted an FAC for deer staking having a mentoring condition added?

And yes the FEO is correct in asking and confirming experience before granting an FAC, but do they really grant a .308 to somebody who’s only experience is shooting rabbits with an airgun?

Do we really want to see formal training courses and competence exams introduced requiring renewing what every one, two, three, five years? And DSC mandatory otherwise you cannot go deer hunting.

To solve what actual problem where is the data that concludes that we have a problem?
 
^ Mentoring is not a standard HO condition. Should not be used. Nobody is suggesting a formal training course. I can’t see a problem with a FEO asking for some evidence of competence. Asking to show you are competent isn’t the same as asking for a formal training course.

If instead the police asked for nothing and a new clueless firearm owner shot some random member of the public or someone at home by accident, how do you think that would play out for the issuing police force or other firearm owners?

It would be mandatory courses for everyone, no exceptions. The current situation with a soft enquiry and only checking generally, is far preferable.
 
Think we are going round in circles 😊 I also fully agree with the current situation, the police have a duty of care so will never “ask for nothing”.
 
Good job other sports don’t have a “Test of Competence” as it would greatly reduce in some cases halve the memberships in most golf/tennis/squash/football/snooker clubs
 
POST FEO VISIT UPDATE:

After pleasantries were out of the way he asked me where my gun cabinet was. Took him to the cupboard and showed him the locked cabinet. He tapped the wall around it (to ID the type and thickness of wall surface) and I explained the cabinet back was screwed into a wooden stud on one side, which is fixed to the external wall, and with threaded rods fixed into the external whinstone walls with resin on the other side. I also explained that the bottom screws were secured into the wooden flooring.

He wanted to see inside the cabinet, so I asked him to step outside my flat whilst I collected the keys. I opened the cabinet and brought him back in. He counted the gun capacity of the cabinet and noted it. He told me he was pleased that I asked him to leave the flat, that it was exactly what he was looking for and that asking him to 'turn his back a minute' wouldn't have been sufficient. I told him that CCTV was being installed near my flat which was another plus point for him.

He then brought out a form which had questions that largely mirrored the FAC application and he confirmed various details with me. This came across as an opportunity for me to demonstrate how well I knew my own FAC application details and that I was confident in what I was applying for. I had my DSC1 and Wild Game Hygiene certificates, alongside BASC magazines out on the table which he clocked and he noted that I am a DSC1 holder and BASC member on the form.

He wanted another print out of my land permission. He also said that 'they' need a total acreage figure of land that you have permission to shoot on. Told him I could get this but he never pursued it.

Presumably playing devils advocate (he is an ex-military marksman...), he quizzed me on if a 6.5 Creedmoor would be legal for reds. So I explained my reasoning for the 6.5 choice and how it's legal for all species Scotland and he was content with that.

I asked about how long I would wait from here and he said anything from 2 weeks to 3 months, but that he can't really say because it depends on whether issues get flagged up by his superiors, who also look through the FAC application and do thorough background checks. He explained that the main hold-ups are coming from the GP practices, especially if private services are used to provide the GP Medial Declaration. He explained it's not worth using these services because they can't directly put a note on your file that you are a firearms holder, so you end up having to pay the private service provider plus your GP in the end to complete a successful application.

The final question was along the lines of "If you were out stalking a deer and it ran out into a public place, what would you do?". To which I replied, "I would stop stalking and not enter the public space". He followed the question up with, "What would you do then? How would you make your firearm safe?". To which I replied, "I would unload and remove the bolt and proceed back to my vehicle.". He was content with that.

The whole visit took 40 minutes and he noted 'Tidy and secure' on the form he was filling out. He said at the end what he's looking for is whether the applicant is sensible and someone he can advocate to have a firearm and be able to sleep at night. What he was not looking for was someone who was likely to go on a weekender bender and get the guns out for a play...

It's true that he politely tested my knowledge on my application and on firearm safety. However, if you've done your homework this won't be an issue. Demonstrate to them how suitable an applicant you are with your knowledge.

FINAL TAKE HOME:
Do your homework on the firearms legislation and law relevant to your country
Get a DSC1 or provide evidence that you can safely and competently operate the type of firearm you are applying for
Be confident in your application
Present yourself, skills and experience well
Don't be an arse - they are only trying to ensure you are fit and competent for a firearms certificate and you may have to deal with the same FEO for decades to come!

Good luck (though you won't need it)
Sam
 
Great update Sam, thank you. Also good to see you didn’t take the advice of some on here and be confrontational with the FEO!
Interesting comment about the medical reports. My local force (Sussex) and happy with Medicert.
 
"He explained that the main hold-ups are coming from the GP practices, especially if private services are used to provide the GP Medial Declaration. He explained it's not worth using these services because they can't directly put a note on your file that you are a firearms holder, so you end up having to pay the private service provider plus your GP in the end to complete a successful application."

That's simply not correct.
 
Can someone please post a copy of form 30 or explain why I have not seen it even though it may have been operative since Adam was a lad ?
Ok its for Northern Ireland only and does not mention a separate medical examination merely the normal consent to access records. TA
You can't access the form 30 it's not for the general public. It's used by the feo to conduct home visit in relation to grants renewals
 
"He explained that the main hold-ups are coming from the GP practices, especially if private services are used to provide the GP Medial Declaration. He explained it's not worth using these services because they can't directly put a note on your file that you are a firearms holder, so you end up having to pay the private service provider plus your GP in the end to complete a successful application."

That's simply not correct.
Renewals are on average around 3 months behind grants are still around 12 months depending on the size of the constabulary and how many cert holders they have. Gp reports can cause delays as can private medical practices. You don't pay twice you contact you're gp they say no you go private. You pay private they receive you're details from you're gp. Medcert supply licensing the report. Gp knows you have applied licensing tell them to submit the marker.
It's quite straightforward
 
After submitting my FAC application in November 2022, my local Firearms officer has called this week to chat about my application and organise a visit to view my security arrangements.

He said that my application would not be considered without someone producing a letter to say that I have experience firing the calibre I have applied for in a safe and competent manner. I haven't seen this written or discussed anywhere as a requirement for a successful application. Has anyone else?

Luckily I have had a shot on targets of various calibres under the wing of an experienced stalker and I have completed the DSC1, so I can produce the letter they require.
it is worth pointing out to the FEO that they need to read the Home Office and NPCC guidance that states that experience is neither calibre nor quarry specific. if you are used top judging safety and backdrops then it matters no what target you are shooting at or with
 
After submitting my FAC application in November 2022, my local Firearms officer has called this week to chat about my application and organise a visit to view my security arrangements.

He said that my application would not be considered without someone producing a letter to say that I have experience firing the calibre I have applied for in a safe and competent manner. I haven't seen this written or discussed anywhere as a requirement for a successful application. Has anyone else?

Luckily I have had a shot on targets of various calibres under the wing of an experienced stalker and I have completed the DSC1, so I can produce the letter they require.
I don't find it unreasonable that you are asked for evidence of your competency /training / qualifications / experience if you want to own and use a Firearm! It is a standard procedure and part of the job a FEO has to do.
And then you go on to say that you can produce such evidence. So I don't get the purpose of your post (?) - just be pragmatic, produce that evidence, and enjoy your shooting/Stalking!
In general terms I always recommend to those starting out shooting/stalking to keep a very simple record of ALL their firearms/Shotgun/hunting/shooting experience, days out, range work, training days, etc. etc. That record can become a kind of 'Shooting CV' which is very useful when your Police FEO asks questions.
Enjoy your Stalking.
 
Years ago I would have argued most strenuously against you but in recent years my opinion has changed and I will agree with you especially on your last point "that no one should be permitted any firearm without some form of training".
Train someone as much as you want but you can't train stupid out of them, nor can you train criminal intent out out a person.
Training can instill safety but just how many NDs cause injury or death to people each year?
And there are many people shooting that haven't had any formal training.
I started shooting at 13 when the butcher I delivered (Bicycle) meat for gave me a used Webley Junior pistol for my birthday.
He told me to be careful and not to point it at anything I wasn't going to shoot.
Ken.
 
Back
Top