BASC response to proposed Scottish deer management changes

[User00053]

regarding hares and slightly off tack, last few years have found hares breeding pretty much all year round

 

[foxhunter]

regarding hares and slightly off tack, last few years have found hares breeding pretty much all year round

Yep and numbers rapidly increasing.

 

[Hayduke]

deer are absolutely a pest species.

Kill ‘em all! The red it’s dead strategy again.

Deer are not a singular species. Deer are a family Cervidae, of which we have six species in the UK. Back to school for you.

 

[Overlay]

Out of interest how many stalkers are on the fit and competent register with Scot nature / SNH

There is a huge amount of do’s and don’ts and criteria required for registration with the clause for change at any time
if all is compliant to this and further changes in the pipeline all will be clear eventually

some of this is a sign of tooooo many cooks in the kitchen. AGAIN

 

[One on top of two]

Point 1 =

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[@theroedeerguy]

Stephen do you realy belive what you are writing. People will use what ever they can afford. We have problems with NV being used on top of cross bow,s in Glasgow spears bows and arrows Air rifles etc. Do not credit people with the same sense as those that have spent hard cash colletting information to pass tests and examinations in deer management. Most on here are not the ones we need to worry about. Nutcases creeping about our urban areas with now legal pour quality NV Thermal shooting at anything that glows.

If you have credible information about deer poaching have you reported it to your local wildlife crime officer?

If not please do or even email contactus@scotland.police.uk

Any information or queries about wildlife crime can be discussed with wildlife crime officers at the Partnership Against Wildlife Crime (PAW) stand at the Royal Highland Show and the Scottish Game Fair.

 

[StephenToast]

Kill ‘em all! The red it’s dead strategy again.

Deer are not a singular species. Deer are a family Cervidae, of which we have six species in the UK. Back to school for you.

I have five of the six. They are all a pest in their own right.

I don't have Sika but I gather they are a quite troublesome non-native invasive?

See you in school.

 

[jall55]

deer are absolutely a pest species.

What has their diet got to do with their welfare?

If lambing fields, and release pens and hen houses are laid out correctly damage is minimised. The time of year they are controlled has nothing to do with that. In any case, why is it acceptable to snare an animal, or leave it's young to starve because there is a chance that it may enter a fenced area full of non-native species which are damaging to their local environment and are only placed there for human recreation?

Foxes will utilise social packs - so if mother / father are lost - step siblings or aunts take over

I shoot them to protect many of our ground nesting birds
Out after them tonight on Curlew breeding sites

Pheasants - if released in line with guidance do minimal damage to the local environment and the woodland management / wild bird plots establishment / later cut meadows / ponds that are built and supplementary feeding are massive positives
But you know this anyway

 

[StephenToast]

Foxes will utilise social packs - so if mother / father are lost - step siblings or aunts take over

And? If you are any use you'll also shoot or snare them won't you? You are certainly within your rights to by law.

I've read on here that if fallow fawns are orphaned early in the season they will be okay as another doe will adopt them.

I shoot them to protect many of our ground nesting birds
Out after them tonight on Curlew breeding sites

Deer browsing causes damage to neating habitat and reduces the denaity of ground nesting birds.

Pheasants - if released in line with guidance do minimal damage to the local environment and the woodland management / wild bird plots establishment / later cut meadows / ponds that are built and supplementary feeding are massive positives
But you know this anyway

They are atill a non-native species that have an impact on their surrounding area of greater or less effect dependent on how concientious the keeper is, and they are only there because it's fun to shoot them.

the benefits of supplementary feeding are suspect, habitat improvement would be a more long term benefit but as above. Relies on how concientious the keeper is.

Supplementary feeding also bolsters populations of other pest species such as rats.

 

[slider]

Out of interest how many stalkers are on the fit and competent register with Scot nature / SNH

There is a huge amount of do’s and don’ts and criteria required for registration with the clause for change at any time
if all is compliant to this and further changes in the pipeline all will be clear eventually

some of this is a sign of tooooo many cooks in the kitchen. AGAIN

Don't know the numbers but registering is dead simple.

You can do this by providing evidence you’ve completed either:

• Deer Stalking Certificate Level 2 (DSC2)
• Deer Stalking Certificate Level 1 (DSC1), plus two referees (one of whom must be DSC1 certified) who can provide evidence that you meet required standards

 

[David Barker]

How does illegal activity have any relevance to a proposed change in the law?

Whatever the law is those people will continue to act illegally.

Do you know there are more deer poached by legal gun owners than there are with none legal.

 

[David Barker]

You are really having a laugh now surely! What have Glasgow Neds using NV on top of cross bows and air rifles got to do with proposed changes in the legislation. Changes to legalise equipment isn't going to stop those that currently ignore the l

Don't know the numbers but registering is dead simple.

You can do this by providing evidence you’ve completed either:

• Deer Stalking Certificate Level 2 (DSC2)
• Deer Stalking Certificate Level 1 (DSC1), plus two referees (one of whom must be DSC1 certified) who can provide evidence that you meet required standards

If you do not have two referees you can contact Nature.scot and they will witness you stalking or just wave this section and send you confirmation in the post as happend to me.

 

[Apthorpe]

Would you be so kind as to point out where in law it states that Hares are a pest species.

Did I mention hares?

Or indeed foxes?

Or find me a legal definition of the word "pest"

It is your assertion that deer are pests, not mine. Although you’ve certainly got a point that it is hard to find a legal definition of the word “pest”, the government website cites the BPCA as being authoritative on what species may be pests, and deer do not appear on that list.

Deer have a deleterious effect to many birds and mammals through browsing damage of woodland understory.

That is an indirect effect and cumulative not individual. Not comparable.

Exactly. And it is in the human interest that the deer closed seasons are removed, on the basis that if there is no welfare issue for the other sentient mammals that we can kill at any time of year then there must be no welfare issue for deer.

The premise is wrong. There is a welfare issue for the other sentient mammals, however it is deemed to be outweighed by the welfare advantages of not having them killing or maiming livestock.

 

[foxhunter]

Do you know there are more deer poached by legal gun owners than there are with none legal.

What evidence do you have to support this ?

 

[Ratel]

Yep and numbers rapidly increasing.

We are.mown out with hares. After harvest nothing to count a couple of hundred every day. Saw leverets in early March this year. The Powers that be like the hares as do I, and I only shoot a few for consumption by them or my family. We do not have hare drives as our neighbouring estate does, and I only shoot them with my .22 Hornet. Having so many about tends to keep off the Caravan, Utilising, Nomadic, TravellerS, as there dogs go in every direction and that doesn't work for them. Long live Puss in my book.

 

[mudman]

We are.mown out with hares. After harvest nothing to count a couple of hundred every day. Saw leverets in early March this year. The Powers that be like the hares as do I, and I only shoot a few for consumption by them or my family. We do not have hare drives as our neighbouring estate does, and I only shoot them with my .22 Hornet. Having so many about tends to keep off the Caravan, Utilising, Nomadic, TravellerS, as there dogs go in every direction and that doesn't work for them. Long live Puss in my book.

March is a normal time to see leverets, like rabbits they start early. But I agree that last few years have been good for hares, I think the various margins grown via environmental schemes help them alot, gives them good feed mid and late summer when the cereals dry out and loose nutrition.

 

[cutty sark]

I will personally be very surprised if deer numbers drastically reduce in the central belt of Scotland just by doing away with out of season, and allowing thermals along with night shooting permissions, the wee rascals are no stupid and will just become more spookier and transient.

 

[Ratel]

March is a normal time to see leverets, like rabbits they start early. But I agree that last few years have been good for hares, I think the various margins grown via environmental schemes help them alot, gives them good feed mid and late summer when the cereals dry out and loose nutrition.

Would not normally see leverets that early, well not over a 70 year period. Last winter was so mild that they must have mated in January.
Total agreement with you on margins and stewardship.

 

[imnotrucknut]

Have you ever shot a pregnant rabbit and gutted it?
I‘ve done a number over the years.

So someone with NV shoots a pregnant doe or hind and then have to gut it?
Will they leave the fetus wriggling as they carry out the remainder of the gralloch, will they use another bullet, or will a knife suffice?
Should this be written into the Best Practice?

How should you dispose of the extra gralloch - remember there was uproar last year (?) regarding the remains of a deer that was poached and the fetus left on the ground.
I’ll say it now, there will be members of the public that will stray on these remains and cause a who-ha about it, and say “how callous the stalkers are”.
It will happen, no matter how hard you try to maintain standards, someone somewhere will slip up and add another marker against stalkers.

Just remember Eddie it's best practice to shoot heavily pregnant muntjac does.
And all females shot in march will have a well developed foetus.except Chinese.
Regards Gary

 

[David Barker]

What evidence do you have to support this ?

The evidence sits with the police.