Or something propelling a nice heavy lump of lead that doesn’t exit and can be removed in tact from the chest cavity.
K
Where’s this drive copper fast thing come from?
- Thread starter big ears
- Start date
K
Copper being a lower weight it doesn't carry energy as far as good as lead its also harder hence needs more speed to expand at LONGER ranges .
That image is just showing what can occur when you shoot at 70 yards at that zone ! 200 yards or further and that would be perfect i dont doubt . Still it might look terrible you aint lost much of real value
That image is just showing what can occur when you shoot at 70 yards at that zone ! 200 yards or further and that would be perfect i dont doubt . Still it might look terrible you aint lost much of real value
paul o'
Well-Known Member
Just asking why not just under 0-200 just neck them fox classic running at 3037 from the .270 I don't see holes like that over 200 .
30 yrds
185 yrds
240 ish
185 and 240 ish
point iam making is from gleaning off here from you guys ! I soon found out that fast copper was a meat eater and when testing on close munty's at close range that proved to me your finding were true ! so I dont anymore as it can turn them from cash to dog meat PDQ.
30 yrds
185 yrds
240 ish
185 and 240 ish point iam making is from gleaning off here from you guys ! I soon found out that fast copper was a meat eater and when testing on close munty's at close range that proved to me your finding were true ! so I dont anymore as it can turn them from cash to dog meat PDQ.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
In my view you don’t need a 140gn copper bullet get 120gn or less. Anything at 70m regardless of bullet probably needs head or neck shooting. I’m
Not sure what you expected to happen but that’s about what I’d expect if shot that with that load. Faster lighter bullets are the way to go with copper if you want to shoot at 200-300m up to 150 anything will do
Not sure what you expected to happen but that’s about what I’d expect if shot that with that load. Faster lighter bullets are the way to go with copper if you want to shoot at 200-300m up to 150 anything will do
big ears
Well-Known Member
My
In the 6.5 it’s 120gr bullets which do the same apart from not shot those out to past 200m.
They both behave just like lead bullets used too at the same speeds.
Simples
I’m just challenging the blanket light and fast mantra which on my real life observations is not correct. Sorry if that upsets some people
BE
I shoot 140gr 7mm because it’s accurate, works and kills well at the sensible ranges I shoot. It has stretched out beyond 200m and still worked. This is real life observation.
In the 6.5 it’s 120gr bullets which do the same apart from not shot those out to past 200m.
They both behave just like lead bullets used too at the same speeds.
Simples
I’m just challenging the blanket light and fast mantra which on my real life observations is not correct. Sorry if that upsets some people
BE
Only my opinion but its the distance/weight/animal thats done that damage. Have shot TSX and now TTSX both in 7mm 120gr at speeds of 2950 and 3200. Naturaly anything close and its gonna smash it. Skin another 10 and show your results this would be intresting.
Shot a red at 80 yds last week, damage on exit was no bigger than palm of my hand.
Shot a red at 80 yds last week, damage on exit was no bigger than palm of my hand.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
Not in any way upset good luck like I say it’s only when you stretch it a bit you need to maintain speed I’d say up to 200m it’s not really gonna matter but copper really needs to be traveling at 2000fps plus to expand properly and nearly all rounds will do that close. That has been my experience.
Why not use 223 or treble, some of the best roe calibres. Suspect many thousand each year fall to them.Look on the bright side, you'll salvage a couple of backstraps and haunches.
Shame we can't use .222 or .223rem for roe, it's pretty much all you need.
Edit; don't know about using copper
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
There is also a myth that is a lot lighter than lead. It’s actually about 80% of the density of lead.
But if you take a tough bonded or partition bullet you actually have quite a thick copper jacket and partition. The bullet is not pure lead.
So in practice a typical monolithic bullet is more like 90% of the density of a typical traditional hunting bullet.
Fundamentally lead bullets work well up to a little above the speed of sound - typically 1500 to 1800 ft per second. Any higher you need a copper jacket to hold the bullet together as it’s travelling down the barrel and to prevent high rotational spin from throwing it apart.
They worked this out early on in the dawn of the nitro express and early centre fire / bolt action age - about 1880. Ever since we have been trying to hold bullets together as they go into big animals - steel jacketed solids, the brenneke ID, and bronze tipped etc were all in the catalogues of the 1920’s snd 30’s. In the US Nosler developed the partition ( really a copy of the Brenneke) and the Bonded in the 1950’s.
By getting rid of the lead and just making a bullet from a piece of copper rod dramatically reduces the manufacturing steps required and allows for much more consistent performance.
But if you take a tough bonded or partition bullet you actually have quite a thick copper jacket and partition. The bullet is not pure lead.
So in practice a typical monolithic bullet is more like 90% of the density of a typical traditional hunting bullet.
Fundamentally lead bullets work well up to a little above the speed of sound - typically 1500 to 1800 ft per second. Any higher you need a copper jacket to hold the bullet together as it’s travelling down the barrel and to prevent high rotational spin from throwing it apart.
They worked this out early on in the dawn of the nitro express and early centre fire / bolt action age - about 1880. Ever since we have been trying to hold bullets together as they go into big animals - steel jacketed solids, the brenneke ID, and bronze tipped etc were all in the catalogues of the 1920’s snd 30’s. In the US Nosler developed the partition ( really a copy of the Brenneke) and the Bonded in the 1950’s.
By getting rid of the lead and just making a bullet from a piece of copper rod dramatically reduces the manufacturing steps required and allows for much more consistent performance.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
In Englandshire you have a min of .240 calibre for all deer other than muntjac and CWD.
big ears
Well-Known Member
Think you miss what I’ve posted before. This round is good out to 250m at least.
Not sure why you want me to change to a small fast bullet when it already works to 230m in fallow and 250m on CWD
Utectok
Well-Known Member
Listen mate u shoot whatever u like I don’t give a f** I’m just saying the light fast thing matters at range when the speed drops below about 2000fps. When you want to shoot stags a 350m + it matters. That’s just my experience but you seem to want a fight for some bizarre reason???
Get more experience.
Plenty of deer are shot over 200 metres and are even 300 metres.So these bullets maintain 2200fps out to 275m. That is far enough for most shooters.
Other brands claim lower opening speeds down to 1900fps which would push out even further.
I would suggest most deer are shot 100-150m. Not many over 200m.
On these stats there is no need to push bullets at super fast speeds. Speeds that will be difficult to achieve in many shorter barrel rifles. Speeds that lead to excessive carcass damage.
It’s become a mantra that I’m not sure is based on real life fact rather more theoretical shooting than actual shooting.
These bullets have accounted for deer beyond 200m and have performed as expected with good expansion and that is starting at a low speed
From my real life experience copper does not need to be shot at speeds over 3000fps.
BE
You hit a roe doe, which is a small deer with 2232 ft-lb, why are you shocked what happened.
As for pushing bullets fast attached photos are a roe doe shot with a fragmenting copper bullet at 120 yards last Saturday. Muzzle velocity 2850. May have been a freak or the -3 temperature dropped my velocity. Either way, expansion failed on a bullet where I have had zero issues before.
Last edited:
What happened to the governments progressive agenda
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
I'm a Norfolk lad, you will be ok doing so in Aberdeenshire
Certainly evidence of good expansion with the TTSX. In the past I used the 140gr TSX in 7mm and that was a tough bullet that was very kind on the carcass and I suspect was not opening as fast.The TTSX seem to open much faster and may be more speed tolerant. They are good bullets indeed and it’s great to see how they perform at different terminal velocities.
I should have said that the velocities I used were off Applied ballistics using a custom drag model so should hopefully be relatively accurate for that bullet
big ears
Well-Known Member
Killed the deer though?
Fair enough (I’d be delighted to find mono-metal bullets worked at modest impact velocities) but a 70m shot is hardly the best example to use to make your point.
Similar threads
