Why do we stalk?

[User00040]

The dog likes it

 

[25 Sharps]

Nice reply Sako
I’m in my 70th year and wielded a catapult since 9 years old swiftly moving on through all normal calibres providing food and during the whole time try not to waste anything and gathering food for my family and my own family and still do, apart from liking all game fish, sea food, game,wildfowl and venison I prefer to gather my own and I do a swap for domestic meats such as chicken, Lamb , Beef etc.
I get asked a lot about it, and I always respond “ it’s a bigger sin to kill a food source animal if you intend not eating it” and I leave it at that finishing off with I suppose you go tescos shopping and exit

Not sure I agree, if something is an agricultural pest the fact is it needs to be killed anyway. Ideally it should be used for food where possible but that shouldn’t ever be a barrier to getting the job done.

Equally controlling non food animals is just as important so why make the distinction?

 

[25 Sharps]

I absolutely understand the logic behind this statement.

I can only say (and speaking only for myself), I do not ,and never have gained any satisfaction or pleasure from the actual act of killing. Ever.

I have hunted, stalked, shot and killed things all my life, and I have always felt both sadness and remorse at the death of everything whose heart I have stilled - and yet I continue to hunt, stalk, shoot and kill.

Nobody said humans are not complex.

Not from the act of killing itself but from the hunt as a whole, you’ll blank on the odd occasion and still enjoy it but ultimately the satisfaction is from a successful hunt, which is a kill, so that is what we are all doing it for.

Then there are those of us that love vermin control, I enjoy a good night on the rats with .410 or air rifle. No massive skill but great fun to shoot 100 or so in an evening, provided you do your utmost to ensure every shot is a clean kill, is there anything wrong with enjoying it?

You can kill without the hunt but, you cannot hunt without the kill.

 

[Ratel]

For me a simple answer "It's in the blood".
It has been for many generations parents, grandparents etc,etc.
Whether animals or humans we have all taken part. It continues in the two descendant generations from me. Hunting is our way of life, end of story.

 

[Mungo]

A well framed argument. Your views are as valid as mine so not disagreeing but a couple of comments though:

I do find it interesting that people have strident views and are unable to entertain the possibility that others can hold an alternative, valid opinion.

Seems to be hard for people (plural, not picking on you personally) to envisage others having a more complex rationale containing elements of some or all of the above, therefore if we suggest that we don't have a blood lust to kill things we must be lying or deluded.

I am not drawn to stalking because I get to kill something. I can assure you I am not in denial, nor am I being disingenuous. The reality is I am ambivalent about the killing bit. I was brought up in the country. Everything dies in the end. I kill some things. It's not a biggie. It would seem a few people on here are feeling threatened by that attitude for some reason?

If just you want to kill things then I would suggest pheasant shooting is a much better pass time. I gave it up as I was a good clay shot at the time and wasn't missing much so it was just boring. Yet this contradicts the 'fact' that I am drawn to the act of killing because I stalk. If that was true I would be shooting pheasants not wasting my time shooting the odd deer here and there.

A full range of views exist irrespective of any one persons belief set, i.e. just because you believe it does not make it true.

Sorry - I may have been too brief before, and used language that was too absolute.

I did not mean that the killing is the only or even the main reason we stalk: I sincerely hope that there are very few for whom this is true. As you and many others eloquently point out, there are varied, profound and entirely sincere reasons for stalking that have nothing to do with killing - in fact, may be directly contradictory.

However, it remains impossible to argue away the fact that killing is the thing that makes stalking distinctive and sets it apart from all the other ways that people can gain pleasure from the outdoors. If we did not gain some kind of personal satisfaction from it, we would not do it. The language breaks down here: I don't mean that people actively enjoy it, or delight in death. But there is something about it that causes people to want to do it again.

I don't mean people who have to do it or are paid to do it. Farmers, keepers, guides, foresters, contractors etc - they all have concrete material reasons for stalking, where the benefits outweigh the costs. I mean people who choose to do it recreationally, when they could do something else. They have chosen to do something for fun, the distinctive feature of which is killing something.

Put it this way: imagine a scenario where someone offers the opportunity to stalk deer exactly as you would with a rifle. But, at the end, you take a photo rather shooting. The deer is marked, and shot by someone else. You are then presented with the carcass. Everything is exactly as normal, except you are not the person who kills the deer. Would you do it? And if not, why not?

 

[Nimrod1960]

I hunt there I am.

 

[mel b3]

I hunt because I have to . I'm a hunter gatherer. Getting up before it's time to go to bed , mooching around schitty fields in the dark hours , often freezing cold or soaked to the skin , dragging beasts that weigh more than I do , is all a real pain in the ass , but something in my dna drives me to do it year in and year out.

 

[Stalker62]

I hunt there I am.

You need to work on your concealment...

 

[Sol]

Growing up in a non-shooting town I just really really loved deer growing up, It was going to happen at one point or another.

I dont let stalking blur my view of the animal I still very much love deer, I even went and visited the reindeer a few days ago since my town had a little Santa event on.

 

[Wilkesy]

Growing up in a non-shooting town I just really really loved deer growing up, It was going to happen at one point or another.

I dont let stalking blur my view of the animal I still very much love deer, I even went and visited the reindeer a few days ago since my town had a little Santa event on.

It's a strange parallax that we can treasure and love something but also hunt and kill it. And I think its this that most people who don't do it, just simply wont understand.

 

[johndeere]

It's a strange parallax that we can treasure and love something but also hunt and kill it. And I think its this that most people who don't do it, just simply wont understand.

It just about sums it up for me.

 

[AlexD]

@Wilkesy,​

What is your motive for asking the question? I looked at some of your other posts, and they are of a similar vein. Do you stalk yourself? If so, what and where? I could not find your intro, to tell me more about whom we are conversing with on this thread. Tell us please why you stalk, and why you are interested on the motives of others. We are a friendly lot here, and friends introduce themselves.

For me, Sako6.x55 put it beautifully in his first post on this thread. He has probably expressed the views of the silent majority also.

 

[25 Sharps]

@Wilkesy,​

What is your motive for asking the question? I looked at some of your other posts, and they are of a similar vein. Do you stalk yourself? If so, what and where? I could not find your intro, to tell me more about whom we are conversing with on this thread. Tell us please why you stalk, and why you are interested on the motives of others. We are a friendly lot here, and friends introduce themselves.

For me, Sako6.x55 put it beautifully in his first post on this thread. He has probably expressed the views of the silent majority also.

You didn’t look very hard

Howdy folks

Hi, My names Dan, I’m a young and enthusiastic outdoors man, with passion for guns! Looking at getting my FAC this year but would like to do my dsc1 and some deer stalking ASAP! I’m new to this whole side of shooting but I am trying to learn as quickly as I can. If you’ve got any advice for...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Licensing query

Hi guys, I recently did my first guided stalk, and absolutely loved it! I can’t wait to get back out and do it again! My reason for posting is that I am in the beginning stages of applying for my shotgun licence for clays ect, I have just received my medical form back from the doctor and the...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

 

[ShootyBang]

I absolutely understand the logic behind this statement.

I can only say (and speaking only for myself), I do not ,and never have gained any satisfaction or pleasure from the actual act of killing. Ever.

I have hunted, stalked, shot and killed things all my life, and I have always felt both sadness and remorse at the death of everything whose heart I have stilled - and yet I continue to hunt, stalk, shoot and kill.

Nobody said humans are not complex.

I feel a particular affection for roe deer. I generally will walk past roe does, preferring to take the fallow that run all over the estate. I take one or two a year, and will take one or two roebucks, but when I see a roe doe, still as a statue and broadside, looking at me and pretending to not be seen... I just don't see the challenge, and I feel sorry for them. On you go, little lady, as your kind have since the ice age, all innocent and elegant.

 

[AlexD]

You didn’t look very hard

Howdy folks

Hi, My names Dan, I’m a young and enthusiastic outdoors man, with passion for guns! Looking at getting my FAC this year but would like to do my dsc1 and some deer stalking ASAP! I’m new to this whole side of shooting but I am trying to learn as quickly as I can. If you’ve got any advice for...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Licensing query

Hi guys, I recently did my first guided stalk, and absolutely loved it! I can’t wait to get back out and do it again! My reason for posting is that I am in the beginning stages of applying for my shotgun licence for clays ect, I have just received my medical form back from the doctor and the...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Thanks. I must be blind.
Your advice to him to do some paid stalks, and then do the DSC1 course, is spot on and just what he needs.

 

[User00047]

It's a strange parallax that we can treasure and love something but also hunt and kill it. And I think its this that most people who don't do it, just simply wont understand.

Absolutely.
I think it’s also the thing that people can’t admit to easily.
Some folks think that you must hate something to kill it…. This is completely wrong.
A real hunter respects his quarry and will do whatever it takes to make sure it has a clean and quick death.
Personally, I love to see deer and I enjoy watching them and I respect them.
“The kill” is a necessary part of the PROCESS of hunting. Hunting is not a single act, nor is killing. What people so often fail to accept is that without the KILL , hunting is NOT hunting. You have to include killing or hunting does not exist.
So, what I’m saying is, the pleasure from hunting is not derived from one single moment….It is a sequence of emotions which are blended together and not easy to describe as a single entity…..but since killing is part of this blend, we cannot deny it.

Just accept that killing is what we do….
And we enjoy it. You do not need to feel ashamed or guilty about this. You should be proud that you are capable of this and that you can provide food for your loved ones by killing your own food, whether it be a deer a salmon or a cabbage.

 

[Bowland blades]

Absolutely we are complex, and I think it’s normal to feel both remorse and satisfaction. In fact, I would be worried if I did not feel both.

I think you need to really examine your motivations. Take your Africa trips. You can have as much of an adventure (in fact, arguably even more of one) on a photographic safari as on a hunt. I’ve been on many remote treks armed with no more than a camera - in fact, the most extreme, dangerous and exciting trip I ever took was as a bag carrier to a semi-pro wildlife photographer.

If you genuinely found no satisfaction in the act of killing, you wouldn’t do it. You’d find ways to experience the countryside without taking a life.

Going to disagree , Its complex but many of my best stalks have not ended with a shot being taken . The best ever was taking my daughter on a long stalk into a bunch of sika ( i Had a loaded rifle but i never really intended to take one and i did not ) ! We simply didn't need one and nothing needed shooting.
I get very little or nothing out of the actual kill now if i am totally honest . Yet i do find i enjoy the hunt more with that attitude . Closing the distance right down with my daughter crawling right in was far better than simply shooting one from the range we sighted them. BTW I could have shot from where we started and perhaps i would if there was a need but the best stalks are those you can risk not working out .
When my time is over i wont be thinking about all the trophy class beasts , more likely i will be thinking of those that i came within touching distance .

 

[TheCornishman]

The way I see it we all have our own motives….for me though like many it’s not so much a choice as it is my CREED

In the same way some people feel compelled to pray or follow a religion…..whether that be a Church or a Team….I feel compelled to immerse myself in nature and take my natural place from time to time…

Time in the field replenishes my soul…it helps my focus…whether successful or not

It is Who & What I am…It’s a call that I need to answer…it’s a deep seated primal urge that needs to be fulfilled

The single minded focus of stalking the chosen quarry….the seconds whilst controlling my breathing before taking the shot seemingly taking hours……The instant that shot strikes….the admiration the fallen beast.

The primal satisfaction of preparing the harvest for the table and the satisfaction of providing for my family.

I hunt because I am a hunter

 

[Mungo]

Going to disagree , Its complex but many of my best stalks have not ended with a shot being taken . The best ever was taking my daughter on a long stalk into a bunch of sika ( i Had a loaded rifle but i never really intended to take one and i did not ) ! We simply didn't need one and nothing needed shooting.
I get very little or nothing out of the actual kill now if i am totally honest . Yet i do find i enjoy the hunt more with that attitude . Closing the distance right down with my daughter crawling right in was far better than simply shooting one from the range we sighted them. BTW I could have shot from where we started and perhaps i would if there was a need but the best stalks are those you can risk not working out .
When my time is over i wont be thinking about all the trophy class beasts , more likely i will be thinking of those that i came within touching distance .

So why do you ever pull the trigger?

If the best memories come from spending time with your daughter and getting as close as you can, do you actually need to shoot? Why not just leave the rifle behind?

I completely understand everything you say - and many of my most memorable stalks have been nearly identical to what you describe. But I still find myself compelled to actually shoot.

If it was about companionship while getting as close as possible to a deer, why don’t we go out with sticks and challenge ourselves to poke the deer?

 

[Heym SR20]

I think all of us have so many that we can shoot. My Pa used to shoot lots of birds in Africa, but he only ever shot one duiker. He still shoots in his mid 80’s but only magpies, squirrels and rabbits. He doesn’t want to shoot wild duck and he has never liked British style of reared phaesants.

As for me I definitely see a finite number of deer that I want to shoot. I am pretty much only wanting to shoot what needs to be shot.

As for professionals we all make choices as to careers and occupations and how we earn a living. Often you sort of stumble into something, then get embroiled and suddenly five or ten years have gone by. But you do make a conscious choice to stay or go and find something else, or just to put up with what you have and know.

I did on one day in my life have real fork in the road in 1993 - a) accept the financial backing to set up a safari business in Zambia or b) accept a place at one of the top universities in the UK to do post graduate studies.

I chose the latter as Zambia had a very uncertain future, I wanted a top education and I wanted to keep my time in the wilds for me, not ensuring somebody else’s enjoyment. I was intending to go back, and much of my studies focused on Africa. Did I make the right choice - well with benefit of 2020 hindsight I still haven’t a clue, but I didn’t expect to be in my 50’s living in Scotland.

But for me deer stalking and wildfowling very definitely keeps me in touch with the wilds and an intimate relationship with wild animals. I don’t get this intensity when shooting game birds, I do a little with wildfowling - especially geese on the foreshore. But outwitting a good roebuck - that’s special.