So it’s steel 2’s for pheasants.

[Smellydog]

There is no English size 2 shot!
I find #1 much better than #3.

Shot Size Info

Shot sizes can cause much confusion; there are English sizes, Italian sizes, Spanish sizes and American sizes. As a general rule we supply our lead shot using English sizes shown in the chart above & non-toxic shot using steel shot sizes.

www.claygame.co.uk

 

[Smellydog]

You must be like the last of the Mohicans if you have eaten game shot with lead

Check the date

 

[enfieldspares]

I'd ask this, please, of the steel shot users. I used tin shot Hull Game Flight which is 3.3mm on my shoot on 20 December and shot eight pheasants. I know that one I brought home was definitely shot by me. The breasts on it were livid crimson pink and heavily bloodshot bruised. This was a one off? Or is it correct that birds **** with steel tend to have the meat more bruised? For of the purpose of steel is to improve sales of shot game this bird when pluck looked very very unappealing. If I had seen it in a shop as punter wanting to buy a pre-packed bird I'd not have purchased it.

 

[Smellydog]

How on earth do you get a single ou?

If it only has one barrel with a suitable choke for steel.

 

[Smellydog]

I'd ask this, please, of the steel shot users. I used tin shot Hull Game Flight which is 3.3mm on my shoot on 20 December and shot eight pheasants. I know that one I brought home was definitely shot by me. The breasts on it were livid crimson pink and heavily bloodshot bruised. This was a one off? Or is it correct that birds **** with steel tend to have the meat more bruised? For of the purpose of steel is to improve sales of shot game this bird when pluck looked very very unappealing. If I had seen it in a shop as punter wanting to buy a pre-packed bird I'd not have purchased it.

It's nothing to do with supermarkets. Commoners use them.
It's just all about preserving the world of gluttony.
Some of the stories about the rich and famous on big shoots nearly every day and the money involved would have you shocked....they don't give a flying fig about the consumption of game, just the preservation of their way of life.
Personally I don't care but what I do care about, being on the lower end of income per annum, is being shafted to accommodate the wealthy!

 

[Kersnow]

The ballistics of tungsten shot are far superior to the alternatives, however it shares the ability of steel to trash gun barrels

The excellent ITM made by Gamebore?Kent was fine in all guns but sadly no longer made due to the cost of tungsten - a bit ironic seeing as we have a huge tungsten deposit in Cornwall that cant/wont be mined.

 

[Tazz]

We can’t reverse gear back out of the phasing out of Lead shot and the “science“ that was used in the reports on it were “ dubious “at best. The bit I truly don’t get is some of the shooting organisations trumpeting the fact that it will drive up game sales in the big supermarket, when I ask people why they don’t eat game ( And that’s a lot of people) I have never heard anyone mention Lead shot. I predict that Supermarket sales of game will increase at about the same rate as our economy

 

[Smellydog]

The excellent ITM made by Gamebore?Kent was fine in all guns but sadly no longer made due to the cost of tungsten - a bit ironic seeing as we have a huge tungsten deposit in Cornwall that cant/wont be mined.

I acquired some and pull the shot for my 10g muzzloader. It works brilliantly. I don't give a monkies about protecting the barrels and chokes.
I'd be just as happy with good old lead because I'm not dying nor is anyone else is from it.

 

[Rasputin]

What’s interesting is that Iv personally always found pheasants to die quite easily with steel at normal ranges say sub 40 yards but on ducks it’s exactly the opposite. Conversely lead is dead on both at 40.

Now the handful of tss I got for my 28b that’s a whole other minefield shot a decent pink with 7s at 35 yards and it was stone dead like nothing else Iv ever seen.

 

[Dunwaters]

If it only has one barrel with a suitable choke for steel.

Read the article, choke selection is dealt with.
The small bore small load magic is also exploded in all bores.
So is the high velocity small load nonsense.
It’s not a set of conclusions that the ammunition companies would have widely publicised.
You have the distilled results of 40 years of experimentation played out in an easily comprehensive format, it includes information on all shot types in all shot sizes , payloads and bore sizes, with recommendations for each species by range and type of shooting.
And yet some of you are arguing that the 40 years of collated data doesn’t match your own personal stats because of 2 shots last week?
I think I’m going with the big boy data on this one.

 

[old 30-06]

Very interesting piece of science this. When steel shot was first on the market I used some at a duck pond, and even at modest ranges I was wounding more than killing. From then on I was anti steel. However, I was using steel number six (as I would have used lead number six). You do not know what you do not know ! For many years afterwards I stayed away from steel. If I had known of this science I would not have used steel number six. B.A.S.C. and all the other organisations should have had this piece of science before plunging us into chaos. They have put the cart before the horse. We need science like this, and innovative gun and cartridge manufacturers, to repair the damage to our sport.

 

[Liveonce]

Very interesting piece of science this. When steel shot was first on the market I used some at a duck pond, and even at modest ranges I was wounding more than killing. From then on I was anti steel. However, I was using steel number six (as I would have used lead number six). You do not know what you do not know ! For many years afterwards I stayed away from steel. If I had known of this science I would not have used steel number six. B.A.S.C. and all the other organisations should have had this piece of science before plunging us into chaos. They have put the cart before the horse. We need science like this, and innovative gun and cartridge manufacturers, to repair the damage to our sport.

As you now look to appreciate, size matters, but the gun and cartridge manufacturers have known that since day one of steel shot.

The laws of physics apply simple as. Steel is less dense that lead hence a steel spherical pellet of the same diameter as a lead one will weight less, so to compensate for the lack of density of steel the standard approach is to go up two sizes in shot size. Howevere the now larger diameter steel pellet will when fired slow down quicker as it travels due to its larger diameter, hence terminal velocity will be less as will terminal energy.
The larger pellets will also occupy more space within the cartridge which may is problematic for small gauge guns as the resulting pattern may be useless.

Any shot size in steel 3.25mm or 3 or bigger will be HP steel cartridge, so 3inch plus chamber guns.

 

[timbrayford]

How on earth do you get a single ou?

I’ve tried non hp steel (20b) same as the chap above, the birds die but bleed out more than folding in the air as with lead, they kill, but its tests your conscience…. Lucky we‘ll have lead for long as shooting is permitted by the incoming woke commies, shooting will be banned before the transition period is over..

For some reason he didn't use the top barrel. Perhaps steel loads are unsuitable for it?

 

[timbrayford]

Very interesting piece of science this. When steel shot was first on the market I used some at a duck pond, and even at modest ranges I was wounding more than killing. From then on I was anti steel. However, I was using steel number six (as I would have used lead number six). You do not know what you do not know ! For many years afterwards I stayed away from steel. If I had known of this science I would not have used steel number six. B.A.S.C. and all the other organisations should have had this piece of science before plunging us into chaos. They have put the cart before the horse. We need science like this, and innovative gun and cartridge manufacturers, to repair the damage to our sport.

And to bear the financial cost of barrels damaged by their steel loaded cartridges?

 

[timbrayford]

I'd ask this, please, of the steel shot users. I used tin shot Hull Game Flight which is 3.3mm on my shoot on 20 December and shot eight pheasants. I know that one I brought home was definitely shot by me. The breasts on it were livid crimson pink and heavily bloodshot bruised. This was a one off? Or is it correct that birds **** with steel tend to have the meat more bruised? For of the purpose of steel is to improve sales of shot game this bird when pluck looked very very unappealing. If I had seen it in a shop as punter wanting to buy a pre-packed bird I'd not have purchased it.

Having spoken to various rural chums that don't eat game lead projectiles don't get a mention. What does is food poisoning from mrs Beeton's putrified meat recipes, a perception that game is premium priced posh people's food and an apparent inability to process anything that can't be removed from a plastic pack straight to the oven with minimum of fuss and consumed free of lumps of metal of any kind, blood clots and splinters of bone thereafter.

 

[timbrayford]

As you now look to appreciate, size matters, but the gun and cartridge manufacturers have known that since day one of steel shot.

The laws of physics apply simple as. Steel is less dense that lead hence a steel spherical pellet of the same diameter as a lead one will weight less, so to compensate for the lack of density of steel the standard approach is to go up two sizes in shot size. Howevere the now larger diameter steel pellet will when fired slow down quicker as it travels due to its larger diameter, hence terminal velocity will be less as will terminal energy.
The larger pellets will also occupy more space within the cartridge which may is problematic for small gauge guns as the resulting pattern may be useless.

Any shot size in steel 3.25mm or 3 or bigger will be HP steel cartridge, so 3inch plus chamber guns.

Also requires higher MV with apparently some pretty vicious recoils

 

[Smellydog]

Read the article, choke selection is dealt with.
The small bore small load magic is also exploded in all bores.
So is the high velocity small load nonsense.
It’s not a set of conclusions that the ammunition companies would have widely publicised.
You have the distilled results of 40 years of experimentation played out in an easily comprehensive format, it includes information on all shot types in all shot sizes , payloads and bore sizes, with recommendations for each species by range and type of shooting.
And yet some of you are arguing that the 40 years of collated data doesn’t match your own personal stats because of 2 shots last week?
I think I’m going with the big boy data on this one.

Qué?


Yeah yeah, seen geese come down to steel. Yeah, what ever.
I like lead, lead is fine, I don't have an agenda or narrative, I don't brown nose or give a ****.

I'll tell you why. The other day I was talking to a guy who tutors top game shooters, gets paid thousands. I asked how the change over is going, " what change over"?
The other week I asked the same question to a loader for the big brass shooters, ditto.
It's bull ****, typical bull **** to try and keep the status quo.
All that will happen is, them at the top will continue to shoot and them at the bottom will do less.
Best of all, us that call it what it is or question it get flamed for it.

Until everyone just says flook off government, sort your own deer problem, sort your own vermin problem, sort your own badger problem the anti hunting types are just gonna keep chipping away. It's called divide an conquer. And communism.

I'll just be glad I didn't get rodgered by them because I didn't stick a white flag between my arse cheeks but hey you do what ever you wish.

 

[Dunwaters]

Qué?


Yeah yeah, seen geese come down to steel. Yeah, what ever.
I like lead, lead is fine, I don't have an agenda or narrative, I don't brown nose or give a ****.

I'll tell you why. The other day I was talking to a guy who tutors top game shooters, gets paid thousands. I asked how the change over is going, " what change over"?
The other week I asked the same question to a loader for the big brass shooters, ditto.
It's bull ****, typical bull **** to try and keep the status quo.
All that will happen is, them at the top will continue to shoot and them at the bottom will do less.
Best of all, us that call it what it is or question it get flamed for it.

Until everyone just says flook off government, sort your own deer problem, sort your own vermin problem, sort your own badger problem the anti hunting types are just gonna keep chipping away. It's called divide an conquer. And communism.

I'll just be glad I didn't get rodgered by them because I didn't stick a white flag between my arse cheeks but hey you do what ever you wish.

Your spiel seems to be a tad incoherent, can you try again later please?
Your views are important to us.

PS, you might try reading the article first, you clearly didn’t before your previous response.

 

[Smellydog]

Your spiel seems to be a tad incoherent, can you try again later please?
Your views are important to us.

PS, you might try reading the article first, you clearly didn’t before your previous response.

Aye, sorry, bit pushed for time.

 

[Smellydog]

Your spiel seems to be a tad incoherent, can you try again later please?
Your views are important to us.

PS, you might try reading the article first, you clearly didn’t before your previous response.

There, looked through it quickly and yeah pretty much agree with everything.
You see, I have done a bit, including using steel, soft iron actually and yes, it does work.

I think you sir are missing my gripe, I don't like being told lead is bad and possibly being forced to eat something that may have iron pellets in it. One it could break a tooth and two, if it lingers in the gut, fester.
I personally hate when a bird is wounded and to wound with a substance that it's body can not isolate, unlike lead, is unacceptable to me.
Their use of plastic wads is also unacceptable.
The so called bio wads take to long and no one knows what the residue is capable of!

If I didn't care about the game I would not argue against it so much. I would simply chop my guns up and buy something steel proof and fire away, but I do care, and I observe. Based on my observations I'm entitled to my opinion.
Re "trusting the science", I do, but it depends on firstly, who is paying the scientist!!

You on the other hand please do whatever makes you happy