Travelling as a passenger with guns after a few drinks

Wapinschaw

Well-Known Member
This is an extract from a comment to the Daily Telegraph article:

"As a warning to all of you who own shotguns legally, be careful after shooting (game/clays) and you have had a few drinks and are driven home by a friend, wife or partner and are stopped by the police. If your driver does not have gun license, and you are are slightly over the the limit the police will deem you drunk in charge of firearms and will confiscate your shotguns which will be extremely difficult to get back. Make sure whoever is driving has a shotgun license."

Daily Telegraph article

Has anyone heard of this happening? How many random taxi drivers have an SGC?
 
I don’t drink & on the few occasions where others have chosen to drink I recommend that they hand their guns over to me for safekeeping if they drink more than would be legal to drive with and generally drop the gun back to them the following morning. It hasn’t happened very often but that’s my strategy. I never really understand why you would mix the two but some seem determined to.
Obviously I have a shotgun certificate.
 
Well that's the problem we all see it.
A friend of mine went on a shoot invited and couldn't believe the amount of alcohol that was being consumed in the morning when it got to lunchtime my friend had seen enough and told the shoot captain he was not happy about this and was going home.
When this friend was telling me about this he was mad as hell he didn't disclose where he had been but I did congratulation him on his principles.
 
The sooner we stop measuring Police performance by the number of arrests and prosecutions the better.

Currently if Police low on stats - go and park up outside a country pub or two on Saturday evening and stop all the SuVs and 4x4s. Most will be driving home after shoots. The very vast majority will have sober drivers, but with passengers over the limit. So each truck stopped - thats 1 or 2 Firearms convictions and Police go top of the chart.

Meanwhile in a neighbourhood near you, kids on high performance electric bikes or scramblers are busy doing wheelies down foot and cycle paths and going straight through and past young families with toddlers on their own little bikes. Far too dangerous for Police to deal with such idiots. (Or that is what I was told after calling police to such an incident and ten police stood and watched two bikes racing each other along the Cramond waterfront. Eventually two police bikes turned up, the kids drove straight at the remaining police nipped between their cars, did a donut and went off down a cycle path giving them the bird. Police were not allowed to pursue).
 
I totally agree that drinking and firearms are a poor combination, however what is the safe limit of alcohol when in charge of a firearm? The limits for driving are clearly set in law
I know this is not a comparison only a concept but in USA motor racing circuits one cannot go into a race car paddock with even a can of beer , in case you should give it to a driver, nor purchase any alcohol in the paddock but in UK motor racing circuits the paddocks are awash with alcohol availability.

It is all in the mind or the belly!
 
In charge of firearms? If you’ve an FAC you are in charge of them 24X7.

Can of worms.

K
With the little shoot I ran any booze was after the shooting not during, people were fine about it.
Been on a few shoots as a guest and was horrified to see people taking a few nips on the pegs...
Do that anywhere else clay ground range day stalking client...send them home.
 
There is a generation where a pink gin before lunch with wine at lunchtime, drinks before dinner and a whisky nightcap is just normal everyday life.

The same generation will a nip to fortify themselves before going into any sort of action.

Younger generations don’t drink. They just do drugs.
 
Firstly, Like many others on this thread, I do not believe that guns and alcohol mix - at all.

The issue for me here is yet again the press misquoting the law. To the extent of my understanding, there is no offence of being drunk in charge of a Firearm - the offence I suspect being referred to is drunk in charge of a loaded firearm. The Licensing Act 1872 makes it an offence to be drunk in charge of a loaded gun. The Firearms Act 1968 makes it an offence to transfer a firearm or ammunition to anyone believed to be drunk. (So loaders beware...)

In the instance referred to, I do not see an offence. In regard to Police measurement, I tend to agree. Their role is to uphold the law - and for me that also means ensuring the law as it stands is carried out, not making it up for their own purposes. As citizens owning legally holding firearms, we have the right of the protection of the law, not just the constant myopic challenging of whether we meet it. Innocent until proven guilty is a founding principle of UK law and the media and others seem to be forgetting this.
 
I suspect that the prosecutions aren’t defended otherwise the police would struggle to get a conviction for drunkenness with a firearm!
Magistrates are more likely to pass it upstairs than pass judgement and the drink driving limit is a measure of fitness to drive which must be backed up by a test at the station to count!
You hear these tales often yet I’ve yet to meet anyone who has had it happen to them.
My first FEO told me not to drink and drive as it would mean a marker of intemperate behaviour being against me and unlikely to get my fac back again!
The law has moved on since then regarding convictions counting against you but the drink driving limit is irrelevant as it would require a doctor to state drunkenness unless of course the drunk was falling over etc. At that point you can assume drunkenness but it still requires a doctor to confirm!
This is why doctors are on call to police cells as much as checking injured prisoners.
 
Drunkenness in law has different applications. Driving vehicles is measured with machines/blood tests and a legal limit is set in law and if exceeded you face the consequences.
Other offences such as drunk in charge of a cycle/horse/child under 7 ( there are others) uses the test of the person with slurred speech, unsteady on their feet, glazed eyes, smelling of alcohol, etc. which is what we would recognise as being drunk. In law a police officer is able to offer evidence of drunkenness in court.
 
Who was the article / comment by?:-|
The article is behind the subscription paywall. Daily Telegraph article

Here is the text of the article:

" Estate shooting manager accused of burning down Michelin-starred restaurant has case dropped. A shooting estate manager accused of burning down a 14th-century Michelin-starred restaurant has been told he is “perfectly innocent” after allegations against him were dropped.

Charlie Birkett was charged with arson after the fire which engulfed the thatched Star Inn at Harome, near Helmsley, North Yorkshire in November 2021.

At York Crown Court on Friday, more than two years later, the 28-year-old was told by a judge: “You leave this court without a stain on your character.”

At the hearing, prosecutors offered no evidence in the case after a new report was produced by one of Britain’s leading fire investigators, Dr Peter Mansi.

The report, which prosecutors reviewed and ultimately agreed with, was paid for by Mr Birkett’s family who run the Rievaulx Sporting Estate in North Yorkshire.

The court was told Mr Birkett was charged on the basis that he deliberately put a cigarette into the thatch of the building.

However, prosecutors admitted that Dr Mansi’s report showed that the fire was caused by a candle in a makeshift ashtray igniting cigarette butts, which spread to dead ivy around the door of the pub.

Criticised the investigation​

In an emotional statement read on the steps of the court, Mr Birkett said his life had been “extremely hard” while living with the prospect of a possible prison term of more than six years.

He criticised the police and fire service investigations, saying that many other people would not have had the financial resources to challenge the evidence in the way he did.

The Star Inn has regularly featured in lists of the best restaurants and gastropubs since the arrival of chef and patron Andrew Pern more than 25 years ago.

The inn was rebuilt and reopened on the anniversary of the fire in 2022. No one was injured in the blaze and more than 40 firefighters battled to save the building.

Recorder of York, Judge Sean Morris, said the defence team should be commended for producing such a “thoroughly convincing” report.

He said: “This was an accidental fire caused by people dropping cigarette ends into a candle holder.”

‘Case was entirely misconceived’​

Speaking outside the court, Mr Birkett said that within 15 minutes of being provided with the prosecution papers, Dr Mansi “categorically could state that the prosecution case was entirely misconceived” and that fire investigators followed an “entirely incorrect hypothesis”.

Mr Birkett said his defence team was able to secure hours of video footage prior to the fire starting, which the police had, which showed “that the fire was nothing to do with me”.

A single charge of arson with recklessness as to whether property would be destroyed or life endangered was dropped.

The CPS said: “We have a duty to continually review cases and after receiving further expert evidence into the cause of the fire, we concluded there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction and stopped the case.”

North Yorkshire Police said it supported the decision to drop the charge.

A spokesman added: “In light of the outcome we will be reviewing this case to identify any learning opportunities.”

The comment about being a passenger under the influence was in the name of Andrew Paul, halfway through the comments. No idea who he is, if that's his real name and if he knows anything about firearms legislation.
 
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