Travelling as a passenger with guns after a few drinks

[tim@tcs]

In law a police officer is able to offer evidence of drunkenness in court.

They are allowed to offer their opinion which is no longer any more valid than yours or mine! It requires a medical professional opinion or definitive tests which you can refuse as not legally required if you’re not the driver!

 

[tim@tcs]

Drunkenness in law has different applications. Driving vehicles is measured with machines/blood tests and a legal limit is set in law and if exceeded you face the consequences.
Other offences such as drunk in charge of a cycle/horse/child under 7 ( there are others) uses the test of the person with slurred speech, unsteady on their feet, glazed eyes, smelling of alcohol, etc. which is what we would recognise as being drunk. In law a police officer is able to offer evidence of drunkenness in court.

There is no absolute offence of drunkenness if I recall correctly it has to have implications such as disorderly, which means a passenger can refuse a breath test and an arrest would be illegal as would any implied disorderly conduct as you would be merely stating your right to refuse!
The drunkenness in charge of is a series of implications of which an unloaded firearm in a slip in the back of the car is not one!

 

[Jon P]

I have not read ever comment but -

Have the police the right / power to breathalyser someone if they are not the driver of a vehicle? - Edit , have googled it -

When can the police request a breath test? | Wainwright & Cummins

Only a police officer can request a breath test. However the officer does not have to be in uniform. We explore your rights when being asked for a breath test.

www.wainwrightcummins.co.uk

 

[Jeff8861]

No offence needs to be loaded.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Well as their is not legal limit to being in charge of a shotgun and no officer is legally capable of determining you drunk
I’ll file this under “ stuff that’s never happened to anyone but folk are trying to make it a worry” file.

 

[Stalker62]

... no officer is legally capable of determining you drunk

Tell that to the thousands of folk who get arrested every weekend, for Drunk & Disorderly or Drunk and Incapable.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Correct me if I’m wrong .
Happy to be shown wrong but as I understood it we do not have such a thing as an inebriation test ( like the US) and only a doctor to decide you are impaired but drink or drugs.

This is away from legal limit requirements such as driving etc.


“Whether a person is ‘drunk’ and whether their behaviour is ‘disorderly’ are notoriously woolly terms with a lack of precise definition, and will come down to the impression formed by the Court on the balance of the evidence – which may include video footage and is highly likely to include a statement by the arresting officer, and his or her colleagues,”

Very wooly indeed and a decent brief would have that negated I suspect.

 

[Stalker62]

Drunk and disorderly behaviour is classified as being drunk in a public place and behaving in a disorderly manner. In short, disorderly behaviour is defined as causing a public disturbance, something which the police can define at their own discretion.

Otherwise you would have to have GPs patrolling the Pubs & Clubs at chucking out time...

 

[Rake Aboot]

I added a paragraph above bud.

 

[Stalker62]

I added a paragraph above bud.

I do remember one crusty old Custody Sergeant who would refuse to accept 'Drunk & Incapable".

His view was, that we have all been drunk and incapable.


"If they are not being disorderly, leave them be".

Wise old Sergeant...

 

[Stalker62]

Very wooly indeed and a decent brief would have that negated I suspect.

Absolutely.

I do not recall a single case of taking a Drunk to Court. Most were kicked out in the morning once they had sobered up.

"Back in the day" most Stations would have a "Drunk tank" - a large cell which could hold up to a dozen drunks.

One night the inevitable happened and one of the drunks killed another. The "Drunk Tank" system was done away with overnight.

You would get a fixed penalty ticket today - makes much more sense.

 

[tim@tcs]

Tell that to the thousands of folk who get arrested every weekend, for Drunk & Disorderly or Drunk and Incapable.

There you have it: disorderly behaviour

 

[Sampo]

I have a zero tolerance policy on alcohol when it comes to guns. Unless they are safetly locked up in the gun safe, its best to avoid alcohol. No drink is worth losing your license over and these days it isn't worth the risk.

 

[Twodogs]

I have not read ever comment but -

Have the police the right / power to breathalyser someone if they are not the driver of a vehicle? - Edit , have googled it -

When can the police request a breath test? | Wainwright & Cummins

Only a police officer can request a breath test. However the officer does not have to be in uniform. We explore your rights when being asked for a breath test.

www.wainwrightcummins.co.uk

Yes the police can request and administer a road side breath/drug test to any person who is in charge of a vehicle. You do not have to be the driver to be in charge, for example if you are supervising a learner driver you are in charge though not actually driving.

As a supervisor you could also be liable for aiding and abetting a driver in the commission of any driving offence. Rubie V Faulkner.

 

[Twodogs]

I have a zero tolerance policy on alcohol when it comes to guns. Unless they are safetly locked up in the gun safe, its best to avoid alcohol. No drink is worth losing your license over and these days it isn't worth the risk.

Quite agree, the same also goes for drugs, any drugs that could impair judgement illicit or legal.

 

[Eddie P]

Quite agree, the same also goes for drugs, any drugs that could impair judgement illicit or legal.

I hope you don't have hayfever and take any antihistamines? They are mildly sedating.

 

[Morkai]

There is a generation where a pink gin before lunch with wine at lunchtime, drinks before dinner and a whisky nightcap is just normal everyday life.

The same generation will a nip to fortify themselves before going into any sort of action.

Younger generations don’t drink. They just do drugs.

Alcohol is a drug, it's just a more socially acceptable one.

 

[Jeff8861]

This is an extract from a comment to the Daily Telegraph article:

"As a warning to all of you who own shotguns legally, be careful after shooting (game/clays) and you have had a few drinks and are driven home by a friend, wife or partner and are stopped by the police. If your driver does not have gun license, and you are are slightly over the the limit the police will deem you drunk in charge of firearms and will confiscate your shotguns which will be extremely difficult to get back. Make sure whoever is driving has a shotgun license."

Daily Telegraph article

Has anyone heard of this happening? How many random taxi drivers have an SGC?

Is that the right link as that goes into a case of arson. In regards to the offence the firearm or shotgun needs to be loaded. Very strange not heard of anything like this. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Jeff8861]

They are allowed to offer their opinion which is no longer any more valid than yours or mine! It requires a medical professional opinion or definitive tests which you can refuse as not legally required if you’re not the driver!

A warranted officer is granted that his opinion in regards to drunkenness is sufficient in a court of law. This has to be accompanied by the following. Smelt of intoxicating liquor eyes were glazed speech was slurred unsteady on feet the person is deemed to be drunk. A civilian can't rely on this.

 

[Dalua]

and you are are slightly over the the limit the police will deem you drunk in charge of firearms and will confiscate your shotguns

What is this 'drunk in charge of firearms' offence, I wonder?
Would they have grounds to breathalyse non-drivers?
If they did and the passenger with gun was over the driving limit, that would still not be evidence of being 'drunk': I thought the whole point of the breath/blood alcohol limit was to remove subjective judgement about fitness to drive due to 'drunkenness' and replace it with an unchallengeable 'limit'.

My take would be that assuming the gun was unloaded (!), they'd have to show that you were actually unfit through drink to be able, for example, to fulfil your statutory conditions with regard to prevent access to it by unauthorised persons.