SikaSeeker
Well-Known Member
The guy from “County deer stalking” is all over it already, offering the course on his YouTube channel, 25% discount if you live in Scotland mind.
Why the Scottish Natural Environment Bill must be fixed
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
- Start date
David Barker
Well-Known Member
Sorry that chaps voice gives me the Dry Boake
Nickb
Well-Known Member
SikaSeeker
Well-Known Member
Yes as he says “we are not in to compulsory hunting courses” but he might as well take full advantage lolYep pound signs in his eyes already
On one hand the Scottish government and Charities are potentially looking to locals to carry out deer management.
If costs are prohibitive for the return, who in their right mind would take it up?
Why encourage with one hand but make it harder with the other?
As has been said paper qualifications mean heehaw.
Gained my driving license at the age of 17.
Written off two motors, one was rear ended at 60mph the other I skidded on ice at 35mph.
One other bad accident where the caravan I was towing was caught by a cross wind at 50mph and jackknifed.
Otherwise 14 other accidents all at 40mph or less (including one fox and one deer).
Some were my fault, others not.
All that after the examiner told my instructor I was the safest driver he’d been with in a while.
Up until I took unwell, I was probably covering 20k+ miles per year including driving abroad in Europe and America.
Blooming heck! Remind me never to get into your car. I did not understand why insurance is so expensive now, thanks for the enlightenment.
Have been driving for 48 years, and the only accident I had after my first two years behind the wheel, was when my wife showed me the latest garage bill for our Discovery 4 while I was reversing it - so stunned by its unreal nature that it took hitting a fence post to awake me from the stupor.
For years I did 100,000 miles a year, including driving from Scotland to S. England and back the same day once a week: those were the days before 50mph motorways and cameras.
Your post convinced me, by projection from driving to stalking, that yes, some people definitely need training.
David Barker
Well-Known Member
Name Change Unlucky Eddie lol
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Or Dangerous Eddie !
I still haven't seen an adequate explanation of why BASC (and BDS to be fair) are against mandatory training. You've had long enough to phase it in. Do the organisations believe effective (ie accurate and humane) shooting is an innate skill passed on through the generations or one that is acquired through effective training? I find it odd that neither of you want to be able to stay, "all our members are trained and accredited" I did annual tests for Woodland Trust and FC, it isn't difficult to organise.Thanks, BASC members can book on regularly held range days at the National Shooting Centre at Bisley and at several sites in Northern Ireland, subject to terms and conditions. The Bisley range days give participants the chance to shoot both static targets and running boar/deer targets with .22 rimfire and centrefire rifles, with the additional option of handguns on Northern Ireland range days. BASC is rolling out more sites across Britain for range days in 2025. There are also ongoing events for airguns and clay shooting, all bookable via the events area of our website.
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The original deer management qualification. Evolved. Discover the UK’s only 100% Online DSC1 Theory with BASC. Enrol now GSC1 Online Assessments Want to improve your knowledge of game shooting? Book your course All upcoming eventsevents.basc.org.uk
Whitefront
Well-Known Member
Of interest, what exactly is the current problem that the imposition of mandatory training/.certification will solve?
I got my DSC2 twenty years ago. Training doesn't really bother me personally, but I can see that a compulsory requirement might be yet a further obstacle for those who wish to take up stalking. And before long, the police are bound to make it a condition for an FAC, surely?
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
That's fine, we shall just have to agree to disagree as it's a principle that self-regulation has been an integral part of BASC and WAGBI before it and explained previously from the BASC update in the OP:
BASC supports high standards in deer management and training, but we firmly believe that self-regulation is effective. Mandatory testing would increase bureaucracy, deter newcomers, and reduce the number of active deer stalkers.
Projections indicate that the proposed measures could halve the number of active deer stalkers in Scotland, reducing them to fewer than 7,500. Over time, this will further shrink the workforce needed to meet increased cull targets – a deeply concerning prospect.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
If it came in, then your guide would need whatever mandatory training requirement was imposed, but you would not require that training.
swagger700
Well-Known Member
Okay thank you 
I've already spoken with him and as expected he's up to date
I've already spoken with him and as expected he's up to date
I think it already is for some FEOs at least.
If you ask for a rifle for deer stalking, Midlothian at least seem to look for both membership of a club with access to a full bore range, and a DSC 1 to give evidence of gun safety and understanding of the legalities when out and about with a loaded rifle.
Then on top of that is NatureScot's competent stalker registration scheme.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
The legislation is clearly bonkers good luck @Conor O'Gorman getting it changed I’d say it’s a long shot the Scottish government aren’t well known for listening to sane arguments. I’ve got all the bits of paper you can shake a stick at but I’d never have got started if it had all those barriers.
It should be a requirement of an FAC application that you are deemed safe to use the firearms. It happens in all other areas, so why is shooting so special that it needs no training at all. THere's enough evidence out there that people are not as good at shooting as they should be
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
I grew up in Denmark where the training and qualifications are pretty stringent. I’ve seen some seriously crappy shots in my lifetime! Just passing the test once doesn’t mean much, although it does give you a lot of training on species and safety and all that, but the actual quality of shooting skills doesn’t necessarily follow.
The best hunters I’ve ever met and hunted with, have been those brought up with it from their fathers and forefathers, they also have the best understanding and appreciation of nature and respect for their quarry. Germany mixes this with training standards very well, but we will never reach their status as we in the U.K. see deer as a pest species rather than a game species that should be respected to the highest level.
@theroedeerguy
Well-Known Member
The Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill also lacks alignment of deer poaching offences with the protection afforded to other wild mammals.
For example, consider a situation where a crossbow has been used to unlawfully kill either a deer or a rabbit.
Unlawful killing of deer is covered by section 17(1) & 17 (2) of the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 and is punishable by a fine of up to £2500 and/or up to 3 months imprisonment per deer.
Unlawful killing of a rabbit is covered by section 11G of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. Punishable under indictment by an unlimited fine and/or up to 5 years imprisonment.
Search warrants under the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 are only valid for a week compared to validity of a month in the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.
Hopefully this anomaly will be addressed and deer in Scotland will be afforded the same legislative protection that is already in place for other wild mammals.
For example, consider a situation where a crossbow has been used to unlawfully kill either a deer or a rabbit.
Unlawful killing of deer is covered by section 17(1) & 17 (2) of the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 and is punishable by a fine of up to £2500 and/or up to 3 months imprisonment per deer.
Unlawful killing of a rabbit is covered by section 11G of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. Punishable under indictment by an unlimited fine and/or up to 5 years imprisonment.
Search warrants under the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 are only valid for a week compared to validity of a month in the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.
Hopefully this anomaly will be addressed and deer in Scotland will be afforded the same legislative protection that is already in place for other wild mammals.
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
If you are using it on an estate or farm that is run as a business then you should have a certificate covering the scope of works you are undertaking and suitable instance and PPE.
We wouldn’t let someone come and use a chainsaw on the place without a certificate so it seems odd that we are doing so with unsupervised firearms. Use it in your own garden no problem but on someone else’s land - ticket or they could end up liable.
I don’t really like certification per se but in the world we live it’s a necessary evil and isn’t that difficult. If you would fail level 1 or 2 then you should be playing a different game because …….. you aren’t competent (that’s not to say everyone without the certificate is incompetent, it’s the ability to pass not the intention to pass).
Grandfather rights are just a short term pacifier, they don’t last that long or apply to many people.
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