6.5x55 or 6.5 creedmoor

[bobo]

Our 6,5x55 factory ammo (what we get in the shops) is somewhat more powerful than the US Creedmoor loads from Federal and Hornady we get here.
The few US factory ammo types for 6,5x55 we have seen here are so lightly loaded, they are slower than the Creedmoor.
The 6,5x55 easy makes more than 820 m/s (2700 FPS) when pushing a 140 grain bullet, and goes out around 790 m/S (2600 FPS) when using our standard 156grain bullets for larger animals.


However we get more Creedmoor here lately, many new rifles are simply only on the gunshop shelf in Creedmoor.
Was looking at an Anschütz 1782 in 6,5x55. But it only comes in light, barrel version.
If I want a medium (or heavy) 580-620mm barrel on a 1782, its only made in 6,5 Creedmoor, our own factories seems to follow the Germans on that point.
Tikka or S&L 6,5 creed with heavy barrels are off the shelf, if I want it in 6,5x55 I have to wait 3-6 month.

 

[Muir]

Me too . As much as I like the Swede , ammo and components ( brass ) are far easier to source for the Creedmoor around here . I've used a 6.5x55 , in one form or another , for about 40 years . It's a great cartridge , but , for non reloaders , a box of ammo sells for almost twice the price of a box of 6.5 Creedmoor . I'll always reload for my Swedes , but if I were limited to factory ammo , the Creedmoor has the edge , at least in these parts .

AB

What he said. I have 13 6.5x55s, and 3 Creedmores. If i had to rely on factory ammo selection in the US, I'd sell the X55's. -Muir

 

[TringSaint]

The advantage of the 6.5CM over the 6.5x55 (amongst other things) is the higher operating pressure. 20" 6.5CM easily produces over 2700fps with 140gr. Even with a few hundred bar spare. 6.5x55 shooters often seem to run the cartridge on the ragged edge. It does have a much lower max pressure and brass is made to that spec. There is no +P 6.5x55 brass that I know of.
I think many were forced to use the 6.5x55 in northern countries because it was the army issue, a competition standard and maybe ammo was kept cheap in certain areas. We only see how much it was disliked after introduction of the 6.5CM. I thought one big reason would be the AICS magazines that seem to push people from 55 to CM but now we have medium AICS magazines and it doesn't help x55 out of the grave either. MDT have a solution for AICS type magazines and mag systems in 284 win length that fit into a Tikka CTR stock and could take 6.5x55 or 284 Win..... we have not had one taker yet for 6.5x55. Similar with Rem clones types, Medium actions are so slow selling that magazine system manufacturers and custom action manufacturers are talking about dumping them. Rather run the mediums on long actions and make a mag system with medium magazine on long action floor plate.
edi

I load my swede with custom loaded 120gn ballistic tipped bullets and they run at a modest 2750-2800fps.
They are very accurate for a 120gn round and they drop deer at will.
There is a misnomer that power = performance, but it’s not always correct. Sure I could up the velocity to 3000+ fps without issue, but I will burn my barrel more and I will not gain any real world performance gain in terms of stopping power or accuracy (in fact, accuracy may drop).

Optimal loads for the rifle in question are the way to go, not hot loading imho.

 

[ejg]

Can’t see the 6.5 Creedmoor ever taking the 6.5 X 55's crown in Scandinavia.

They will follow suit. Less and less rifles will be chambered in x55 for starters. x55 Ammo manufacturing will be reduced also from Scandinavian manufacturers because the international demand/sales will get less.
I also think competition shooters would go away from x55 in a flash if they could. World wide very few use x55 for competition.
edi

 

[ejg]

Our 6,5x55 factory ammo (what we get in the shops) is somewhat more powerful than the US Creedmoor loads from Federal and Hornady we get here.
The few US factory ammo types for 6,5x55 we have seen here are so lightly loaded, they are slower than the Creedmoor.
The 6,5x55 easy makes more than 820 m/s (2700 FPS) when pushing a 140 grain bullet, and goes out around 790 m/S (2600 FPS) when using our standard 156grain bullets for larger animals.


However we get more Creedmoor here lately, many new rifles are simply only on the gunshop shelf in Creedmoor.
Was looking at an Anschütz 1782 in 6,5x55. But it only comes in light, barrel version.
If I want a medium (or heavy) 580-620mm barrel on a 1782, its only made in 6,5 Creedmoor, our own factories seems to follow the Germans on that point.
Tikka or S&L 6,5 creed with heavy barrels are off the shelf, if I want it in 6,5x55 I have to wait 3-6 month.

I remember the 156gr Lapua factory load, measured with a 29" barrel or? A friend used that Mega load out of a 22" Ruger and the performance was a disaster. Think just over 2400fps, coupled with low BC.
edi

 

[Border]

They will follow suit. Less and less rifles will be chambered in x55 for starters. x55 Ammo manufacturing will be reduced also from Scandinavian manufacturers because the international demand/sales will get less.
I also think competition shooters would go away from x55 in a flash if they could. World wide very few use x55 for competition.
edi

I respectfully disagree. But time will tell.
6.5x55 is so ingrained here that it will endure.

 

[West5575]

I respectfully disagree. But time will tell.
6.5x55 is so ingrained here that it will endure.

i tend to agree. I actually think the creed is a good useful round that will last. But the Swede is like the 06 and a few others. Sure there have been other successful 30 cals. Some have their uses and stick around and some do not. But the 06 will never go away. Same with the Swede. Even if the creed sticks around and is more popular the Swede will stay around. There are a host of other 264 caliber rounds that have come and may go. Just doubt the Swede will be one to go.

 

[Scipio]

They will follow suit. Less and less rifles will be chambered in x55 for starters. x55 Ammo manufacturing will be reduced also from Scandinavian manufacturers because the international demand/sales will get less.
I also think competition shooters would go away from x55 in a flash if they could. World wide very few use x55 for competition.
edi

well, i applied to go for a shooting day with a shooting club where i live, (in the Copenhagen area, here in Denmark), and all they asked me was if i had a 6.5 caliber rifle, but not the cartridge,
Now i am yet to go shoot with them, so i dont know if they meant that as that any 6.5 cal would be fine, or if they are so ingrained in dealing with the 6.5x55 that "6.5" for them just means the x55. But it could be that the path to moving away from the 6.5x55, but staying inside the 6.5 caliber, has been opened somewhat here. At least in the shooting club/target shooting arena.

As for hunting purposes i think Denmark actually originally, way back, leaned more towards the 8x57 and Germany, but then reorientated more towards the 6.5x55 afterwards. In recent time it's my impression that the american 30 cals, so the 30-06 and then 308 and 300 win mag has been gaining popularity, and it wouldnt surprise if the CM class of cartridges was next to become quite popular. And as someone already said, if that is what the new rifles are sold in, that is what people will buy, most likely.
I do think the 6.5x55 will endure, as will likely other classic european cartridges like the 8x57, the 9,3x62 and the 7x64 and to a lesser extent the 7x57, but i do suspect the CMs will grow in popularity even here in Scandinavia.

 

[West5575]

well, i applied to go for a shooting day with a shooting club where i live, (in the Copenhagen area, here in Denmark), and all they asked me was if i had a 6.5 caliber rifle, but not the catridge, so i am yet to go shoot with them, but yes, it could be that the path to moving away from the 6.5x55, but staying inside the 6.5 caliber, has been opened somewhat here.
As for hunting purposes i think Denmark actually originally leaned more towards the 8x57 and germany, but then reorientated more towards the 6.5x55 afterwards. I recent time it's my impression that the 30-06 and then 308 and 300 win mag has been gaining popularity, and it wouldnt surprise if the CM class of cartridges was next. As someone already said, if that is what the new rifles are sold in, that is what people will buy, most likely.

I think it would be interesting as we move to longer bullets with higher bc to see rifle builders slightly lengthen the short actions to accommodate 308 cases with longer projectiles. This would basically be like the original Mauser rounds. I stand by the x55 and x57 being the best designed balanced cartridge case for hunting. Who doesn’t want a 308 with 180 gr bullet that can be seated a few thousandths further out.

I don’t think the medium length custom receivers will ever be a big thing but the difference between a 308 action and Mauser medium action is so small. The mighty creed would benefit from a little more room for 156 gr pills as well.

 

[Scipio]

I think it would be interesting as we move to longer bullets with higher bc to see rifle builders slightly lengthen the short actions to accommodate 308 cases with longer projectiles. This would basically be like the original Mauser rounds. I stand by the x55 and x57 being the best designed balanced cartridge case for hunting. Who doesn’t want a 308 with 180 gr bullet that can be seated a few thousandths further out.

I don’t think the medium length custom receivers will ever be a big thing but the difference between a 308 action and Mauser medium action is so small. The mighty creed would benefit from a little more room for 156 gr pills as well.

Hello buddy Yes, that would be a very welcome (re)development of action length i agree. And yes, why not just produce a proper mid length action adapt for the x55, x57 and longer 308 necked class of cartridges? Didnt sako produce mid sized action lengths for a bit, even after the short vs long actions seemed to become the norm? But i might be mistaken here.
But yes, i agree it could be a nice development, even though right now the fashion seems to be trying to go the other way, and create very short but also very fat cartridges, with long necks married to low twist barrels to accomodate what you mention, but kept in those shorter actions, hence the CM class. Unless you make them very fatm that will still naturally will cut into the case capacity however, of course.

But tbh, i have always wondered, just how much difference the long action vs the short action really makes for the average stalker anyways ? I mean how much more does a "long" 6.5x55 action weigh vs a short 308 one, 200 grams more, 300 maybe? And how much longer is the reloading action, a third of a second maybe? maybe less ? Is that really going to change the nature of the hunt for most stalkers ?
I mean if i was a dedicated mountain hunter, seeking a very low weight rifle, i'd almost for sure skip the whole action length issue, and use a Kipplauf as my main rifle instead i think. Probably in a 7x65r.

 

[West5575]

My thinking is that there is now the mini short family around the 233 length. There are a lot of nice rounds that fit in that for varmint and small deer. If I wanted the ultra light rig I’d go that way. Shooting a 308 in an ultralight rifle is not for me. Now that the ar15 length cartridges are taking off and expanding into bolt guns it makes sense to slightly my a few thousandths to lengthen the short actions. Would help the PRC fans as well. The long action will always have a place but the future is in the space just longer than 308 and the ar15 lengths.

Because it’s all that’s even available I’ve owned and enjoyed the 7x57 and 6x55 in long actions. They do fine. The ar platforms have dominated bolt rifle chamberings for a while but those cartridges always take off in custom bolt jobs. Makes more sense to have slightly longer short actions which would accommodate most of deer and boar size hunting and I’d be shocked if more companies don’t jump in the mini size game. Those rounds are just too good. Howa was smart to get in early.

Just got back from a shooting day with my son and his friend. Had two shotguns and about six different rifles. Most fun was the Cz 527 in x39. 90% of hunting I do could be enjoyed with a mini action. The short action gives some benefit but don’t think there’s all that much increase in capability there.

 

[North Cornwall Deer]

The choice of rifles and ammunition is much better in the CM.
Quick look on Gun Trader tells you all you need to know..

Possibly because once you buy a 55 you hold on to it

 

[gixer1]

I shoot a 55, and have done for 30+ years.
I’d buy a Creedmore just for availability of ammo.

A very good point this!

I have a 243, 30-06 and have had for a long time…more recently (within the last 5 years) I have also added 2 x creedmoors and I must say they are a great chambering for inbetween the 243 and 30-06.

If I was expecting to shoot reds I used to take the 30-06, if it was roe or foxing - the 243…

The creedmoor kinda covers all bases and I have one for long range gong bashing too…

But if it’s just for stalking a swede would also be perfectly suited to the task.

You would not be disappointed with either.

 

[ShovelyG]

Possibly because once you buy a 55 you hold on to it

The 55 will always have a following its a fantastic round doing the business for over 100 years.
Time marches on and progress waits for no man.

The Creed fills a sweet spot for some people hunting deer and medium sized game.
It has the benefit of being great at long range plinking to. All in a tidy little action that opens up more military applications securing it's viability.

The fact that 55 owners feels threatened by it is something I don't understand.
Afterall it was launched to knock 308 of their perch . Maybe that's why it gets so much hate? It asks questions of a few chamberings. Even though it's not 'better' then them necessarily.

One thing is for sure, it's a great chambering and it's not going anywhere until something fills the same gap in the market with better credentials.

I am all for it to be ousted. I don't hold loyalty to any calibre.

I just want the best tool for the job.


Back to the original question I would pick the Creed over the 55 not because it's anyway better because it isn't. It will open more choices in rifles and ammunition doing pretty much the same thing. Unless you reload or live in Scandinavia according to this tread.

 

[4616Oxon]

I would say creed, the twist rate is normally slighlty faster than the swede which is better for copper. You will find it far easier to find factory ammo for the creed and cases for that matter. All rifles will be available in creed but not all will be in the swede. Of course both will work as some have pointed out but long term you would be better off with a creedmoor.

 

[Taff]

530 new CM.
60 New Sweed.

There are also double the amount of Second hand CM then Sweed.

Both calibers do pretty much the same thing. It's just the CM does it in a shorter action. The natural progression of things seems to be towards a shorter action.

The other thing is we are such a small part of the firearms market. Ultimately we will follow the US as it's the biggest market. The CM is still very popular over there. I can't see it going anywhere anytime soon .

As I pointed out earlier 6.5cm are being offered at discounted prices as sales have slumped worldwide with the introduction of the PRC, obviously being reflected in the uk on gun trader. The ****ing contest between calibres is irrelevant to anyone with a 270

 

[Scipio]

As I pointed out earlier 6.5cm are being offered at discounted prices as sales have slumped worldwide with the introduction of the PRC, obviously being reflected in the uk on gun trader. The ****ing contest between calibres is irrelevant to anyone with a 270

And some might say the 270 is irrelevant to anyone with a 280 or 7x64 But the 6.5 prc, 270 and 280 etc, are all in the 30-06 case capacity class, so a step above the CM and x55, really.

As for the thread starters question, - well the 6.5cm vs the 6.5x55 obviously shoot the same bullets, so that's not going to diffentiate them. Twist rate wise they should also both be good for most things hunters might throw at them, however as mentioned, the CM might be easier to find in new rifles in.
Meanwhile it gives itself that the old x55 has more history to it, and in the end it also does have a slightly larger powder capacity too.
So you can reach similar velocities to the CM with lower pressures, and probably therefor experience more of the "gentle push" that some speak of vs a more aggressive snap, when you fire.
Now Some might point out that this also provides an opportunity for the x55 reloaders to go beyond CM velocities, if you load the x55 to the same pressures as the CM, and i guess that is technically true. That is if one is willing to load to pressures above the CIP defined ones. However by doing that you might also lose that gentle push of a regularly loaded x55, and I am not sure there is much need to go beyond those cirka 55 k psi for most stalkers out there. Especially not these days, with range finders and ballistic calculators that helps with forseeing and adjusting for drop.

Ah, and yes, isnt the 6.5 CM suited for a short action? The x55 isnt, which means you have to utilize a slightly longer and heavier, long action. Will this difference in action matter much for most of us ? Again i doubt it.

So yeah, ballistically there is really not much in it, so in the end letting which rifle you fancy the most, and have the best feeling with, decide for you might serve you well. As might the question of it you want to be able to rely mainly on commerical ammo, or your own reloads, as the CM is likely easier to find factory loads in.

 

[HonestJohn]

The choice of rifles and ammunition is much better in the CM.
Quick look on Gun Trader tells you all you need to know..

Tells me few people want to sell their swedes and many their creeds

 

[HonestJohn]

I remember the 156gr Lapua factory load, measured with a 29" barrel or? A friend used that Mega load out of a 22" Ruger and the performance was a disaster. Think just over 2400fps, coupled with low BC.
edi

Ha! Used that on roe and reds for a season, never seen deer run so far after good shots!

A 140g partition however!

Love my m65 6.5x55, and former Schultz Larsen barrelled Mauser 98.

If I manage to shoot it out, it’s going to become a 7x57. But, it might see the ripe old age of 70 ish before that happens.

 

[Rusty Gate]

Good evening fellow stalkers,

After your opinions (however rogue)...

I'm in the market for a new calibre for stalking, I currently have .243 and 30.06 and my main quarry is Fallow.
The maximuin range on my permissions is 300 yards.

So I've narrowed it down to 6.5x55 or 6.5 creedmoor and am after your thoughts.
Trying to factor in all the pros and cons and still can not decide!

Please don't start your answer with a quip about my husband shooting too!
For me it's all about what the gun / bullet can do.

Thanks in adavance

6.5x55

140gr Partition a damn good standard but up to 160gr