6.5x55 or 6.5 creedmoor

[JM knives]

I had the same two calibres, had the .243 re barrelled into a 6.5x47 and I’m running 120gr CX through that, and now the 30-06 has gone and that’s been replaced with a 22-250. I reload so the x47 isn’t a problem, if you don’t reload and don’t want to then go with the creedmoor just for the availability, it will shoot everything that you need it to.

 

[Stalker-of-the-deer]

6.5 creedmoor.

I can go into a shop and buy ammo vs the 6.5x55 which most shops now only have 1-2 boxes in.

Though if I was homeloading it wouldn't matter which you got.

 

[Laurie]

I was under the impression that 6.5x55 had 10% more case capacity than the swede. And when home loaded can possibly have the same, if not slightly more velocity?

(Factory ammo aside)

I assume you mean Creedmoor when you say 'Swede'. (6.5X55 / 6.5 Swede / 6.5 SKAN are the same thing.)

Yes, the 6.5X55 case has more capacity than the Creedmoor, but is rated at a substantially lower maximum pressure (c. 51,000 SAAMI / 55,000 psi CIP for SE/modern rifles vs the Creedmoor's SAAMI 62,000 psi). Given that most US 6.5X55 'Swedish Mauser' factory ammo is loaded much lower than SAAMI max, the 6.5X55 is often at a severe performance disadvantage for non handloaders. With Norma factory cartridges that will be less.

With handloads and the better factory ammunition, as others have said, there's nothing at all between the pair in practical terms. You do see some impressive claims for handloads and 6.5X55 based wildcats such as the GWI on forums, but they all involve pressures way above maximum. (Equally, with very strong small primer brass many match shooters are loading the Creedmoor to impressive MVs but at pressures well above industry maxima.)

Both cartridges are capable of superb precision. We can dance endlessly round and round this particular mulberry bush, but shooter choice will always come back to non-performance factors such as individuals leaning towards 'modern' or 'classic' options; rifle availability and individual model appeal; factory ammunition availability and price for the non-handloader; what the local gun dealer advises and what he can obtain in a reasonable timescale from the importers.

 

[cjs66]

If you want a simple answer .... either creedmoor or 308.
You only have to look at what ammo is on the shelves in non toxic in most gunshops and it's the above.
My local rfd stocks 7 different brands of non toxic in creed and 8 in 308...
Only 3 in swede (not a big seller either) 4 in 243, 3 in 270 and 30 .06.

That should give you an idea.

Just out of interest, who's your local RFD?

Ta.

cjs

 

[seastalker]

Just got shot of my 6.5x55 after a decade of happy use. Reason, unless you reload 6,5x55 ammo can be hard to come by. Have had a 6.5 Creedmoor made

 

[wildfowler.250]

I assume you mean Creedmoor when you say 'Swede'. (6.5X55 / 6.5 Swede / 6.5 SKAN are the same thing.)

Yes, the 6.5X55 case has more capacity than the Creedmoor, but is rated at a substantially lower maximum pressure (c. 51,000 SAAMI / 55,000 psi CIP for SE/modern rifles vs the Creedmoor's SAAMI 62,000 psi). Given that most US 6.5X55 'Swedish Mauser' factory ammo is loaded much lower than SAAMI max, the 6.5X55 is often at a severe performance disadvantage for non handloaders. With Norma factory cartridges that will be less.

With handloads and the better factory ammunition, as others have said, there's nothing at all between the pair in practical terms. You do see some impressive claims for handloads and 6.5X55 based wildcats such as the GWI on forums, but they all involve pressures way above maximum. (Equally, with very strong small primer brass many match shooters are loading the Creedmoor to impressive MVs but at pressures well above industry maxima.)

Both cartridges are capable of superb precision. We can dance endlessly round and round this particular mulberry bush, but shooter choice will always come back to non-performance factors such as individuals leaning towards 'modern' or 'classic' options; rifle availability and individual model appeal; factory ammunition availability and price for the non-handloader; what the local gun dealer advises and what he can obtain in a reasonable timescale from the importers.

I have and meant a swede / 6.5x55. Appreciate this is open to correction.

I don’t get too jazzy and stick with the data sheets but same bullet and more case capacity in the x55 would suggest you could get a bit more out of the swede - certainly they’ve talked about this on some podcasts.

That’s not to say that the 6.5CM isn’t more efficient case wise. And they’re probably very much splitting hairs.

The 6.5prc vs 6.5cm is a more interesting debate to be fair

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

55

 

[monarman]

Just out of interest, who's your local RFD?

Ta.

cjs

Northallerton shooting and countrywear...
Well worth a visit

 

[cjs66]

Northallerton shooting and countrywear...
Well worth a visit

I know it well.

 

[JohnCZ]

I was under the impression that 6.5x55 had 10% more case capacity than the swede. And when home loaded can possibly have the same, if not slightly more velocity?

(Factory ammo aside)

I am assuming Swede vs Creedmoor - The 6.5x55 is a bigger case and if loaded to higher (modern) pressures it is about 100fps faster than the Creedmoor. Really 100fps isn't changing anything on game unless you're an American ammo maker or gun writer.

 

[Laurie]

The 6.5x55 is a bigger case and if loaded to higher (modern) pressures

You can load the 6.5X55 to 'modern pressures', ie 60-62,000 psi. Whether it's wise and safe to do so even in a modern strong action is debatable (to understate the matter). I handload 6.5X55 using Norma and Lapua brass for long-distance F-Class, and frankly wouldn't ever consider loading it to those pressures, or anything near!

Actually, because of the considerable degree of body taper, the 6.5X55 only offers a modest amount of extra capacity over modern designs based on the 308 Win case or the even less tapered Creedmoor (based on the Hornady/Thompson Center .30TC case). Lapua 6.5X55 cases from my match rifle chamber hold 58.1gn water. That compares to 53.7gn with Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor fireformed brass and around 55gn from Lapua 260 Rem. That's an 8.2% increase 6.5X55 vs 6.5CM. The standard rule of thumb is that all other things being equal, an x% case capacity change gives 0.25x% MV change, ie +2.05% here. So, if you have a Creedmoor load giving 2,800 fps from a 140gn bullet you can expect an additional 57 fps.

However that applies only if all other things are the same - barrel length; bullet; chamber pressure. In this pair, you are comparing a 51/55,000 psi design to a 62,000 psi one and things are definitely not equal.

 

[wildfowler.250]

I am assuming Swede vs Creedmoor - The 6.5x55 is a bigger case and if loaded to higher (modern) pressures it is about 100fps faster than the Creedmoor. Really 100fps isn't changing anything on game unless you're an American ammo maker or gun writer.

You can load the 6.5X55 to 'modern pressures', ie 60-62,000 psi. Whether it's wise and safe to do so even in a modern strong action is debatable (to understate the matter). I handload 6.5X55 using Norma and Lapua brass for long-distance F-Class, and frankly wouldn't ever consider loading it to those pressures, or anything near!

Actually, because of the considerable degree of body taper, the 6.5X55 only offers a modest amount of extra capacity over modern designs based on the 308 Win case or the even less tapered Creedmoor (based on the Hornady/Thompson Center .30TC case). Lapua 6.5X55 cases from my match rifle chamber hold 58.1gn water. That compares to 53.7gn with Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor fireformed brass and around 55gn from Lapua 260 Rem. That's an 8.2% increase 6.5X55 vs 6.5CM. The standard rule of thumb is that all other things being equal, an x% case capacity change gives 0.25x% MV change, ie +2.05% here. So, if you have a Creedmoor load giving 2,800 fps from a 140gn bullet you can expect an additional 57 fps.

However that applies only if all other things are the same - barrel length; bullet; chamber pressure. In this pair, you are comparing a 51/55,000 psi design to a 62,000 psi one and things are definitely not equal.

Cheers gents. That covers it better than I could. I’ve no interest in chasing hot loads as such. It’s just interesting how little there is between them.

To be honest the 6.5x55,(and I assume 6.5CM) is a nice round as far as recoil, accuracy and effectiveness. I’m still trying to decide how I feel about the trajectory though

 

[Mungo]

Cheers gents. That covers it better than I could. I’ve no interest in chasing hot loads as such. It’s just interesting how little there is between them.

To be honest the 6.5x55,(and I assume 6.5CM) is a nice round as far as recoil, accuracy and effectiveness. I’m still trying to decide how I feel about the trajectory though

Trajectory is not a problem in the era of rangefinders! If you know the range, it is entirely predictable.

Wind is always a much bigger issue - and the 6.5s are really good for this.

 

[Olaf]

Zig or Zag.....but get a Creed for the pure "Marmite" value. I have one and love it but am thick skinned enough to cope with the constant pee taking

Do you like marmite because it improves the flavour profiles of a wheat and gluten free vegan cheese sandwich?
Kindest regards, Olaf

 

[hendrix's rifle]

What calibre? I know my .22.250 maxes out at 400 going 3480 FPS with 55 grn ttsx my .270 maxes out at 500 and it’s going 3065fps with 129 grn Barnes lrx and my 7mm rem mag maxes out at 750 going 3180 fps with 139 grn Barnes lrx. The blade bullet might be softer than Barnes I dunno? I’ve never bought factory ammo for 20 years.

Thats where the PRC comes in. 130g cx at 3250fps is over 800. You can take that long shot with confidence and know the bullet *should* expand properly but we all know copper has a habit of doing unexpected things

 

[hendrix's rifle]

To the OP.
Keep it simple. 6.5creed or 308. Both will do what you want well. Factory ammo available for both for whatever tickles your fancy. Both will kill deer. Both will likely shoot well. Massive selection of ammunition.

The hardest part - what rifle are you getting?

 

[JohnCZ]

You can load the 6.5X55 to 'modern pressures', ie 60-62,000 psi. Whether it's wise and safe to do so even in a modern strong action is debatable (to understate the matter). I handload 6.5X55 using Norma and Lapua brass for long-distance F-Class, and frankly wouldn't ever consider loading it to those pressures, or anything near!

Actually, because of the considerable degree of body taper, the 6.5X55 only offers a modest amount of extra capacity over modern designs based on the 308 Win case or the even less tapered Creedmoor (based on the Hornady/Thompson Center .30TC case). Lapua 6.5X55 cases from my match rifle chamber hold 58.1gn water. That compares to 53.7gn with Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor fireformed brass and around 55gn from Lapua 260 Rem. That's an 8.2% increase 6.5X55 vs 6.5CM. The standard rule of thumb is that all other things being equal, an x% case capacity change gives 0.25x% MV change, ie +2.05% here. So, if you have a Creedmoor load giving 2,800 fps from a 140gn bullet you can expect an additional 57 fps.

However that applies only if all other things are the same - barrel length; bullet; chamber pressure. In this pair, you are comparing a 51/55,000 psi design to a 62,000 psi one and things are definitely not equal.

Hi Laurie,
That's a great answer and as a target shooter you are all over it mate. I am positive in F class that all matters but the OP looking for a stalking round and 51 years into my hunting life I can absolutely tell you that dead is dead and no deer would ever see the difference between a 6.5x55 and a 6.5 Creedmoor (insert almost every middle of the game cartridge if less than 300m) and that is what I was talking about. Proof is that's why so many shooters firing factory ammo spec'd anywhere -200fps to +100fps of box speed are killing deer daily, it just doesn't matter. Put the bullet in the boiler and she's all over bare the walk out.
By the way I fully agree with your math and on the target range you are 100% right, where you are shooting paper for trophies.
Cheers
John

 

[Leec6.5]

Thats where the PRC comes in. 130g cx at 3250fps is over 800. You can take that long shot with confidence and know the bullet *should* expand properly but we all know copper has a habit of doing unexpected things

All that’s going to do is blow Sh?t up at that speed

 

[JohnCZ]

You can load the 6.5X55 to 'modern pressures', ie 60-62,000 psi. Whether it's wise and safe to do so even in a modern strong action is debatable (to understate the matter). I handload 6.5X55 using Norma and Lapua brass for long-distance F-Class, and frankly wouldn't ever consider loading it to those pressures, or anything near!

Actually, because of the considerable degree of body taper, the 6.5X55 only offers a modest amount of extra capacity over modern designs based on the 308 Win case or the even less tapered Creedmoor (based on the Hornady/Thompson Center .30TC case). Lapua 6.5X55 cases from my match rifle chamber hold 58.1gn water. That compares to 53.7gn with Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor fireformed brass and around 55gn from Lapua 260 Rem. That's an 8.2% increase 6.5X55 vs 6.5CM. The standard rule of thumb is that all other things being equal, an x% case capacity change gives 0.25x% MV change, ie +2.05% here. So, if you have a Creedmoor load giving 2,800 fps from a 140gn bullet you can expect an additional 57 fps.

However that applies only if all other things are the same - barrel length; bullet; chamber pressure. In this pair, you are comparing a 51/55,000 psi design to a 62,000 psi one and things are definitely not equal.

That's a great answer Laurie and as a target shooter you are all over it mate. All things being equal in a hunting round no deer would ever

Cheers gents. That covers it better than I could. I’ve no interest in chasing hot loads as such. It’s just interesting how little there is between them.

To be honest the 6.5x55,(and I assume 6.5CM) is a nice round as far as recoil, accuracy and effectiveness. I’m still trying to decide how I feel about the trajectory though

No need to worry about any recoil in a 6.5mm, even the magnums are pussycats. My friend's 50kg wife (ex) use to shoot his 264 Win Mag without the slightest hint of concern, the Swede and Creedmoor and very light recoiling and accuracy of both is nothing short of stellar.
All of the 6.5's are effective if you put the bullet in the right spot.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

All that’s going to do is blow Sh?t up at that speed

Nah, not with a hard bullet like the CX, hence the *should* expand. Unfortunately its the trade off using with using lead free. Once you start pushing ranges, the bullets become substantially less effective. I wouldn't want the likes of the yew tree TLR much quicker and certainly not for close range woodland stalking. That's my reach out and touch something rifle. The 243 covers everything else