The demise of lead shot...
- Thread starter Pedro
- Start date
Spartina
Member
Tell me where rough shooters, game shooters clay shooters were when BASC [Swift] sold wildfowlers down the road?
I can tell you where. Nowhere.
So the circle has fully turned and guess what, those wildfowlers have adapted and overcome.
If they can do it, with their particular requirements and quantities so can everyone else.
Embrace the change and make it work for you.
Or just give up. But stop crying about it.
nice second post Spartina, your attitude is exactly why we do not all work together, I can assure you i am not crying about it or about to give up, rather I rejoice in that at my age I have enjoyed the best years of shooting in this country, participating in practical pistol, service pistol, police pistol, shooting semi auto full bore rifles, practical rifle, practical shotgun, game shooting, pigeon shooting, clay shooting, target rifle shooting.
You may see the ending of lead as nothing to concern you shooting mainly airguns but let’s wait and see how it looks in 2029.
Spartina
Member
Then that should be ammunition [!] to be taken forwards in argument against any lead shot ban., YEAH RIGHT, as it displays the hypocrisy that is endemic in the UK at present.
"Despite the use of lead pipes in new houses being prohibited, millions of houses in the UK are still plumbed with dangerous lead pipes that pose a measurable risk to human health. Water companies commonly add orthophosphate to our drinking water as a plumbosolvency agent. The orthophosphate binds to lead pipes and helps prevent the harmful metal from dissolving into the water.
Adding tonnes of phosphate to our drinking water each year may be cheaper than replacing all of the country's lead pipes, but it’s not infallible and errors in dosing have previously been reported. The UK Drinking Water Inspectorate's first quarter report in 2022 found:
"
Are Water Pipes Still a Problem? | Lead Pipes UK | The Water Professor
Are water pipes still a problem in the UK? Learn about lead pipes, health risks, & testing solutions for your home.
thewaterprofessor.com
So there you go.
Spartina
Member
You're right it doesn't bother me one jot.
Because instead of crying about it I have my mitigations already in place because of shooters who stuck their heads in the sand a decade or so ago.
I'd show you the pattern results but only having 3 posts and all that....
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
If you see any lead pipe being ripped out tell them you know someone after it and get in touch with me immediatelyThen that should be ammunition [!] to be taken forwards in argument against any lead shot ban., YEAH RIGHT, as it displays the hypocrisy that is endemic in the UK at present.
"Despite the use of lead pipes in new houses being prohibited, millions of houses in the UK are still plumbed with dangerous lead pipes that pose a measurable risk to human health. Water companies commonly add orthophosphate to our drinking water as a plumbosolvency agent. The orthophosphate binds to lead pipes and helps prevent the harmful metal from dissolving into the water.
Adding tonnes of phosphate to our drinking water each year may be cheaper than replacing all of the country's lead pipes, but it’s not infallible and errors in dosing have previously been reported. The UK Drinking Water Inspectorate's first quarter report in 2022 found:
"
Are Water Pipes Still a Problem? | Lead Pipes UK | The Water Professor
Are water pipes still a problem in the UK? Learn about lead pipes, health risks, & testing solutions for your home.
So there you go.
Spartina
Member
you got itIf you see any lead pipe being ripped out tell them you know someone after it and get in touch with me immediately
grandad of the woods
Well-Known Member
Were I have been slightly avoiding the pros and cons of losing lead **** and all the drama with it can someone just confirm to me the law regarding the lead ban, is that a ban on the sale of lead **** or is that a ban on the use of lead shot, I'm just thinking as let's just say you decided to go and buy a pallet load of lead shot to last you if you still have lead shot cartridges left surely they can't then say nope through all those in the bin and buy some new none lead ones.
So will you be able to use up any left over stock you have
This leads me to another though is there the potential buy then that shops will then give huuuuge price drops near the time of the ban to get rid
So will you be able to use up any left over stock you have
This leads me to another though is there the potential buy then that shops will then give huuuuge price drops near the time of the ban to get rid
Spartina
Member
Interesting points.
I feel that our opponents will press for elimination of everything lead [but not millions of house water pipes, and don't mention lead flashing. no votes in those, silly me] that could be associated with shooting.
I don't think so!
It is ban, as far as I know, on the use, and save for collectors the sale, in regard to lead shot loaded shotgun cartridges. So stockpiling will not help and there will be, so far, no compensation scheme. I am happy to be corrected. So although it seems possession will not be unlawful you will have, simply, a large amount of what is of legally unusable ammunition. Now there may be wisdom on buying such cheap if the auction market offloads this to salvage the primers, the cases, the powder. But that's all as far as I can think of.
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Where do you get this idea that anybody is crying about it? and good for you if it bothers you not one jot.
The debate has been about the inconsistency within the HSE ban proposal and questionable science in some
situations.
no need to post patterns, we all know steel patterns tighter than lead.
PK54
Member
So having finally purchased a shotgun and joined a local shoot, I was figuring I may as well start as I’m going to have to continue and use steel.
But as several others have commented steel’s not the problem it’s the plastic wads, even if they are bio-degradable.
The consensus amongst farmers and gamekeepers I’ve spoken to is that they’re dangerous for livestock?
Didn’t everyone use plastic 10-20 years ago without livestock dropping dead everywhere?
Was there ever a claim against BASC’s or the Game Keepers Association for a dead sheep?
Seems to me we need some science here and a few facts to cut through the myths; if that’s what they are.
As far as I could find out, there’s only one small company making steel cartridges with fibre wads and they’re virtually unobtainable.
Why are we still talking lead/steel when it’s lack of acceptance of bio-degradable plastic that’s potentially going to kill pheasant shooting?
But as several others have commented steel’s not the problem it’s the plastic wads, even if they are bio-degradable.
The consensus amongst farmers and gamekeepers I’ve spoken to is that they’re dangerous for livestock?
Didn’t everyone use plastic 10-20 years ago without livestock dropping dead everywhere?
Was there ever a claim against BASC’s or the Game Keepers Association for a dead sheep?
Seems to me we need some science here and a few facts to cut through the myths; if that’s what they are.
As far as I could find out, there’s only one small company making steel cartridges with fibre wads and they’re virtually unobtainable.
Why are we still talking lead/steel when it’s lack of acceptance of bio-degradable plastic that’s potentially going to kill pheasant shooting?
If steel kills a goose it will kill a pheasant or a fox which is the largest animal you are likely to legally kill with a shotgun in Britain. I have been told by a colleague in Sweden he has used steel shot for deer on drives.
Obviously no one wants to see plastic wads littering the country side. But the degradable ones do work, just a shame there are not more of them.
Obviously no one wants to see plastic wads littering the country side. But the degradable ones do work, just a shame there are not more of them.
Forty plus years ago there were supposedly "trials" where plastic wads were deliberately mixed with animal feed (in troughs) and the feed was eaten and the wads left. The trial was conducted by the makers of plastic wadded cartridges...so take it as you will. Regardless of that it is still ugly litter and will be the next line of attack of the "antis".
Regardless of the naivete of BASC paying the Danegeld of sacrificing lead shot the "anti" attacks on pheasant being a non native species and their further attempts to negate the General Licences to allow pheasant (and red legged partridge) release will not now disappear.
And attempts to justify big bag shooting as some sort of "harvesting" of free range pheasant meat for the housewife? I predict that game meat consumed in the UK in 2030 will be in fact less than game meat consumed in the UK in 2025. Who would buy meat shot with potentially rusting steel ball bearings aside the risk of broken teeth.
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Attacks on the General Licences that allow the release of what is classed as a "non native species" will likely be what eventually will end pheasant shooting as mostly it is only sustainable in the numbers demanded on large commercial shoots with putting down large amounts of captive bred poults. The ending of the lawful use of lead shot for taking live quarry is in fact the least of the potential worries faced by the big bag boys. And that's before the stalking horse of "avian flu" is sent out as a further reason to curtail what we do.
Work in which way, work as a wad regarding internal ballistics or work for the environment? Not easy to achieve both demanding tasks.
As most are made from so called biodegradable material to EN 13432 for packing material, e.g cling film, but when the material is used to manufacture wads, the wads being much thicker do not meet the EN 13432 if they did the cartridge manufactures would use it as a selling point.
The cardboard tube type being cellulose do have microorganisms in the environment that will eat them, same reason shops and the packaging industry has moved back towards card and paper for a lot of packaging.
PK54
Member
As I say, I’m new to the game, so maybe just confused.
Non of my local shoots will accept plastic wads of any sort even Eley’s ProEco and fibre/paper wadded steel cartridges are all but unobtainable.
We seem to have two options going forward,
a) Prove that “eco friendly” wads don’t harm livestock or litter the environment and change farmers and many others reluctance to accept them, or
b) Begin manufacturing, in sufficient quantities something paper based that works.
I don’t actually care which, but at the moment I’m being told I’ll have to use steel by the government but that I can’t by those who let me shoot on their land.
Ridiculous !?!?!
Non of my local shoots will accept plastic wads of any sort even Eley’s ProEco and fibre/paper wadded steel cartridges are all but unobtainable.
We seem to have two options going forward,
a) Prove that “eco friendly” wads don’t harm livestock or litter the environment and change farmers and many others reluctance to accept them, or
b) Begin manufacturing, in sufficient quantities something paper based that works.
I don’t actually care which, but at the moment I’m being told I’ll have to use steel by the government but that I can’t by those who let me shoot on their land.
Ridiculous !?!?!
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