The people's republic of Scotland

[private fraser]

Re intimidation...

I was talking to a friend who puts up fences,sheds etc etc.
He is 6'2", built like a brick sh*thouse and works like he is a Terminator.

Talk drifted onto the referendum and he mentioned how he was fed up with the aggression of the Yes campaigners. He said the Yes campaigners got pretty upset when anyone dared to pass their table outside the supermarket without promising to vote yes. I had heard the same from a lady I know but I was surprised that my friend had had it, being the size he is.

You Yes folk can go into denial all you like, them's the facts.

These folk seem emboldened by their numbers and their "cause". They should be given brown shirts.
Godwin's law moment

He told me what he and all of his family were voting, but said that they were keeping quiet about it, neighbours have to be lived with etc.
Not nice,be glad when it's over.

 

[geordieh]

Eh? Are you claiming we're really just a third world country, if it wasn't for us being owned and sponsored by Englishmen? Do you secretly work for the Yes! campaign?

Not yet but in 5-10 yrs I think you could be if you vote yes Sorry I actually meant bankrupt rather than a third world country I apologise to my Scottish friends

 

[private fraser]

not yet but in 5-10 yrs i think you could be if you vote yes

 

[SL6.5]

Not yet but in 5-10 yrs I think you could be if you vote yes

Following the abject failure of the BoE's Q.E. programme, I don't see how you can even begin to convince yourself that might be true. England's current economic situation is akin to a snake trying to fend of starvation by eating its own tail. Now, if you were to speculate that some other wealthy foreigners might pump a few billion into the Scots economy, trying either to buy their Highland dream or Industrial land to set-up business on (or both) I could maybe believe that. Of course, that won't make us third world but it would probably make our land values, currency and net incomes higher than the rest of the UK's.

 

[timbrayford]

Why are people under the impression that this referendum will resolve the issue of Scottish independence? The vote seems to be heading for somewhere near a 50:50 split, will the losing side really accept the result?

atb Tim

 

[SL6.5]

Why are people under the impression that this referendum will resolve the issue of Scottish independence? The vote seems to be heading for somewhere near a 50:50 split, will the losing side really accept the result?

atb Tim

Interesting question. Of course you are really asking; Do we believe in democracy or not? I think that in Scotland we do. I've long felt that perhaps in other parts of the UK this might not be so much the case.

 

[6pointer]

MP.s To get 10% pay rise the government say they want the right people in the job. nurses got 1% to be taken back next year is it any wonder the 50% of scots want to take the risk of separation.

 

[palmer_mike]

MP.s To get 10% pay rise the government say they want the right people in the job. nurses got 1% to be taken back next year is it any wonder the 50% of scots want to take the risk of separation.

Are the scots mp's not getting the pay rise?

 

[Kalahari]

Interesting question. Of course you are really asking; Do we believe in democracy or not? I think that in Scotland we do. I've long felt that perhaps in other parts of the UK this might not be so much the case.

Well with the obsession shown about getting rid of "Tory Governments" even if they are voted for by the UK as a whole, Scotland may not be that great a fan of democracy after all!

David.

 

[private fraser]

Come on SL6.5 (?) you started this thread...care to comment on the article brought up by another member,this one...

Brian Wilson: Border costs post-independence - The Scotsman

I assume you order stuff on eBay Amazon. Etc well their costs will rise..comments pse and don't forget costs re the couriers which bring ammo guns etc up here..to what may soon be a different country.

The whole Border thing needs some answers as per the article.

It's time a Yes advocate stepped up and gave some answers and since you started the thread...

ps... It would be wonderful if you would care to comment,with your insightful financial knowledge,on the nightmare of cross border pensions.
I reckon a lot of folk in England don't know that that will affect Their pensions, and the poor devils don't even have a vote.

 

[wivenhoe65]

Are the scots mp's not getting the pay rise?

I think you missed the emerging truth here .
If you are a yes voter it is apparently only possible to view any news / report / statement / crop circle as an opportunity to reinforce your view that Scotland should vote yes for independence , any facts or awkward truths that might contradict your firmly held belief are to be ignored / not believed / ridiculed .
Getting the idea now ?

 

[Davie_M]

I think you missed the emerging truth here .
If you are a yes voter it is apparently only possible to view any news / report / statement / crop circle as an opportunity to reinforce your view that Scotland should vote yes for independence , any facts or awkward truths that might contradict your firmly held belief are to be ignored / not believed / ridiculed .
Getting the idea now ?

Very true i am afraid

 

[Druid]

MP.s To get 10% pay rise the government say they want the right people in the job. nurses got 1% to be taken back next year is it any wonder the 50% of scots want to take the risk of separation.

Pay peanuts get monkeys. Best people running the country please.

 

[Druid]

Don't know if this has been covered, but I read an article in Friday's Times noting that there is a concentration of Labour MPs in Scotland which has had a disproportionate influence on general elections over recent decades. Without this factor, the Tories could have feasibly been in power from 1951 to 1997.
Whatever one's political affinity, this illustrates that independence for Scotland could exert a lasting fundamental change over the entire UK.

Said it before, I'll say it again, if watching Scotland vote for independence and bankrupting itself means no more Financially wasteful, social engineering, labour government screwing those of us who work and aspire then I will have to wish you in Scotland all the best.

 

[wivenhoe65]

Said it before, I'll say it again, if watching Scotland vote for independence and bankrupting itself means no more Financially wasteful, social engineering, labour government screwing those of us who work and aspire then I will have to wish you in Scotland all the best.

perhaps the irony involved with the yes voters delusion that being part of the UK has stifled Scottish prosperity and entrepreneurial spirit might bite harder than any of us imagine ,just think , no more labour governments for the English .........
I think i have just been converted from fence sitting to the yes camp point of view
now where did i put my blinkers

 

[NigelM]

You can bang on about money, political implication, the left and the right. It might work for them, it might might not - they are not going to find out unless they try. Should we as Englishmen influence their decision, you can make arguements that we can, but in reality I don't think we should. It's their call.

However, I love the place, love the people I've met there, and ****, I'll miss them.

If they go I think it will get messy, and with anything messy resentment will build. The English government will be bloody minded and make it difficult (Currency/Europe etc.) and the Scots will hate us for it. If it goes wrong in 20 years and they want to come back into the Union the English government will screw them - more resentment.

On the other hand, if there's a No vote I can see that going a bit pear shaped as well. If the Yes has run at 49% half the nation will be up in arms and it will not go away in a hurry. The "we've been robbed" camp will bang on until they get another crack at it.

The genie has been let out of the bottle with this vote. I'm not sure he's going to go back in again for a while.

 

[SL6.5]

Come on SL6.5 (?) you started this thread...care to comment on the article brought up by another member,this one...

Brian Wilson: Border costs post-independence - The Scotsman

I assume you order stuff on eBay Amazon. Etc well their costs will rise..comments pse and don't forget costs re the couriers which bring ammo guns etc up here..to what may soon be a different country.

The whole Border thing needs some answers as per the article.

It's time a Yes advocate stepped up and gave some answers and since you started the thread...

ps... It would be wonderful if you would care to comment,with your insightful financial knowledge,on the nightmare of cross border pensions.
I reckon a lot of folk in England don't know that that will affect Their pensions, and the poor devils don't even have a vote.

The answers that matter to the legitimate questions that exist largely, simply cannot be answered from here, which is what makes the negativity of the Better-together campaign so pointless (unless it is actually to the deliberate purpose of driving a wedge between Scotland and the rest of the UK, which would actually be far to cunning and well conceived for our politicians to muster up, if you ask me). It's a cruel irony that the conversations that will lead to the answers that would help many people decide how to vote don't even start in earnest till the day after a yes vote. All we really have to go on with certainty are the terms of the Edinburgh agreement, which tends to state that in the event of a yes vote solutions will be sought with mutual goodwill and to mutual benefit, as preconditions to the referendum even taking place. Not being evasive here, if that's how it seems, just stating the reality of the situation. There will be no real answers till the real conversations begin. It is clear, however, that much of the scaremongering simply doesn't stack up.

 

[private fraser]

The answers that matter to the legitimate questions that exist largely, simply cannot be answered from here, which is what makes the negativity of the Better-together campaign so pointless (unless it is actually to the deliberate purpose of driving a wedge between Scotland and the rest of the UK, which would actually be far to cunning and well conceived for our politicians to muster up, if you ask me). It's a cruel irony that the conversations that will lead to the answers that would help many people decide how to vote don't even start in earnest till the day after a yes vote. All we really have to go on with certainty are the terms of the Edinburgh agreement, which tends to state that in the event of a yes vote solutions will be sought with mutual goodwill and to mutual benefit, as preconditions to the referendum even taking place. Not being evasive here, if that's how it seems, just stating the reality of the situation. There will be no real answers till the real conversations begin. It is clear, however, that much of the scaremongering simply doesn't stack up.

"Not being evasive"...eh..Really?.
I'd hate to catch you on an evasive day then.

More gobbledook from the guru and slipping in a few well worn Yes voter digs.
Not even mentioned the points I brought up...gave them All a wide body swerve in fact.
A bravura performance of politician crap-speak.

This is something that I I've noticed that characterises Yes voters.
Namely a complete and utter inability to address clearly named issues and clearly and politely phrased questions.

You prefer to "tap the side of your nose" and imply that you are privy to special information and come out with guardian newspaper-speak instead of addressing the more mundane issues mere mortal ordinary working bill paying folk are concerned with.

There we have it folks, it's seemingly quite impossible to get these guys to answer a straight question.

Are you after Alex's job, you seem to be getting plenty practice in ?.

 

[private fraser]

Here's another reeaaly straightforward hypothetical question for you SL6.5 (?)...

A guy turns up at your door.
He tells you he has a great Product, and that you should sign up for it.
He is unable to guarantee that it will work, indeed there are no guarantee's at all on the Product.
He is unable to tell you how much the Product will cost.
He doesn't tell you that there is no going back on the deal once you sign, but does admit this...when pressed. In other words...it's for life.
He either evades your questions or answers them by saying, "don't worry,we'll work that out as we go along, just sign here".

Do you...

a) Say "yeah that sounds great" and sign on the dotted line for the Product.
b) Say No thanks, and shut the door.
c) Say No thanks, shut the door and call the police in case he should con elderly or vulnerable people.

It's a really straightforward question, give it a go...just for fun .

 

[corky]

Here's another reeaaly straightforward hypothetical question...

A guy turns up at your door.
He tells you he has a great Product, and that you should sign up for it.
He is unable to guarantee that it will work, indeed there are no guarantee's at all on the Product.
He is unable to tell you how much the Product will cost.
He doesn't tell you that there is no going back on the deal once you sign, but does admit this...when pressed. In other words...it's for life.
He either evades your questions or answers them by saying, "don't worry,we'll work that out as we go along, just sign here".

Do you...

a) Say "yeah that sounds great" and sign on the dotted line for the Product.
b) Say No thanks, and shut the door.
c) Say No thanks, shut the door and call the police in case he should con elderly or vulnerable people.

It's a really straightforward question, give it a go...just for fun .

Jeezo that's pretty much what I said on the wife's Facebook earlier on and funnily enough not a single reply from the Yes side when normally they are on in a flash-because when facts are put in front of them that cannot be argued or twisted around they move on to somebody else to talk p@@@ about oil,NATO ,EU, and weapons of mass destruction-funny how Trident has barely been mentioned for years and now it's one of the most evil things in Scotland (apart from Alec Salmond)allegedly!and the other standard issue items of how they will improve everyone's life with better roads,hospitals,schools etc-well what have they been doing the past 7 years when they have been running the show then-of course it's the UK govt's fault isn't it ?