I'm certainly no expert in metallurgy, but with copper (pure) rated as pretty much twice the hardness of lead (pure), does it follow that by using only copper bullets we can expect to replace our rifle barrels after half the time compared with using traditional lead bullets? I welcome all or any comments.
Barrel wear with copper vs lead bullets
- Thread starter tigertodd
- Start date
Most non lead bullets have relief grooves machined which reduce friction and fouling, so not necessarily. Barrels are consumables like sound moderators. Most modern "lead" bullets have a tombak jacket over a lead core.
Can’t claim any great expertise but if you do any reading on barrel wear, 2 things are always mentioned, (1) how hot the powder burns, and (2) how overbore the cartridge is, i.e. how much powder ends up burning in the barrel and not case. That’s a simplification, but I think sums it up.
Most bullets have a copper jacket anyway, usually gilding metal which is harder than pure copper. Some monometal bullets also use gilding metal but I believe the tendency with monometals is to use softer copper (Barnes claim to be pure copper). The only difference I can foresee is that copper jacketed lead bullets will be a little more compressible but, as they don’t have relief groves, will have a larger bearing surface.
Most bullets have a copper jacket anyway, usually gilding metal which is harder than pure copper. Some monometal bullets also use gilding metal but I believe the tendency with monometals is to use softer copper (Barnes claim to be pure copper). The only difference I can foresee is that copper jacketed lead bullets will be a little more compressible but, as they don’t have relief groves, will have a larger bearing surface.
Several rifles I know of started blowing primers with factory copper ammo. Came down to the fact that their users followed a non-existent cleaning regime.
Fact is that all copper/monolithic bullets are going to leave more deposits in the barrel as they do not contort/obturate to the barrel's lands and grooves in the same way a superior cup-and-core design will do.
Fact is that all copper/monolithic bullets are going to leave more deposits in the barrel as they do not contort/obturate to the barrel's lands and grooves in the same way a superior cup-and-core design will do.
No
The bearing surface of most monolithic bullets is significantly less than a cup and core lead bullet.
To the tune of <10%
Also the cup and core bullet is still a copper or alloy jacket in contact with the barrel
None of the metals used in bullets are anywhere near the hardness of the steel in the barrel
The flame front, carbon and heat cycles from range use are much more destructive
Correct.
long_range_rob
Well-Known Member
Barrels are consumables just like bullets and moderators. They all wear out so build it into your costs.
Based on extensive peer reviewed testing and comparison of course….
The surface contact of a monolithic bullet is much less and the constituent metal is often EXACTLY the same as the solid shank of the cup and core.
The obturation of the driving bands of the monolithic into the grooves of the barrel is no different in solids vs cup and core
Otherwise they would leave the barrel.
If your blowing primers you cant just blame the bullet material or a cleaning regime
Not since the 1980s when almost all monolithic bullets were produced with removed material grooves or more advanced designs running on groove diameter rings (Neilsen, Hasler, Peregrine)
If you are getting fouling to that extent either change your bullet or change your rifle.
norcan
Well-Known Member
As others have said, it’s the burning gunpowder that erodes barrels.
I usually shoot lower-pressure loads at normal range sessions and save the spicier stuff for long-range days and the field.
Anyway, barrel life probably isn’t something even worth thinking about on a pure stalking rifle.
I usually shoot lower-pressure loads at normal range sessions and save the spicier stuff for long-range days and the field.
Anyway, barrel life probably isn’t something even worth thinking about on a pure stalking rifle.
Hook'N'Bullet
Well-Known Member
You're already shooting a copper jacket on your standard cup and core?
We service and certify a lot of agency or contract rifles.
Most are using non lead now. Many users don't clean much!!
Very few rifles display any level of copper fouling although one private customer came in recently and the barrel looked like something from Ernst Blofeld's arsenal (Goldfinger for the non film nerds!)
The bore was golden....
dvbookshop
Well-Known Member
Barrels burn out long before they wear out.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmmm.
Last year I dipped my toe into copper bullets with mixed results - some were appalling though though Yewtree in particular were excellent.
As is my usual approach I lightly crimped each one of my test batch and set off to the range to play. The first thing I noticed was that pressure signs appeared early even with what I hitherto knew were moderate powder charges for lead bullets so with each different bullet I naturally stopped when this occurred and moved on to the next batch.
On return I proceeded to pull all of those at or above the charges where pressure became evident - the effort required to pull them was many times what is required for my “normal” ones which reminded me that even the moderate crimp I had applied took considerably more effort than usual.
As is well known copper bullets are much harder than traditional lead bullets and as has been said already these bullets therefore have drive bands designed to reduce friction rather than the traditional full-length contact along the bullet - so the question for me is would my traditional light crimping introduce early pressure signs and/or is there a greater pressure spike as the copper bullet enters the barrel?
dvbookshop
Well-Known Member
The answer is coating with hexagonal boron nitride.Hmmm.
Last year I dipped my toe into copper bullets with mixed results - some were appalling though though Yewtree in particular were excellent.
As is my usual approach I lightly crimped each one of my test batch and set off to the range to play. The first thing I noticed was that pressure signs appeared early even with what I hitherto knew were moderate powder charges for lead bullets so with each different bullet I naturally stopped when this occurred and moved on to the next batch.
On return I proceeded to pull all of those at or above the charges where pressure became evident - the effort required to pull them was many times what is required for my “normal” ones which reminded me that even the moderate crimp I had applied took considerably more effort than usual.
As is well known copper bullets are much harder than traditional lead bullets and as has been said already these bullets therefore have drive bands designed to reduce friction rather than the traditional full-length contact along the bullet - so the question for me is would my traditional light crimping introduce early pressure signs and/or is there a greater pressure spike as the copper bullet enters the barrel?
Steff
Well-Known Member
A bit 80ies, don't you think
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