Basc voluntary lead ban

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What about simulated game days?
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Excellent VSS! So.

Lead's OK for a simulated drive of three hundred plus clays and ten guns firing maybe a three hundred to four hundred cartridges from Covert Copse in March but not OK for a flush of maybe sixty or so pheasants and team of eight guns firing maybe one hundred cartridges in January where all the shot game is shared between the guns and the beaters and never enters the food chain?

And that is pretty much what, when comes the time, some young "cub" reporter will stand up and ask at the inevitable future press conference in five years time. So why then is lead not OK for pheasants but is OK for clays? It beggars belief that BASC, et al, are either so stupid or so up their own arses not to have thought this through.
 
Nice to see the cartridge manufacturers also didn't know about it in advance. They say (final word) the retreat from lead as suggested is 'impossible' so who was driving it ?
Did anyone talk to anyone else? Why are they proposing it ? What is going on ?
Collectively couldnt organise a p*** up and in a brewery.

Sorry but the manner and the subject of this 'utterance' is not just pathetic, it just beggars belief.
 
kes said:
Nice to see the cartridge manufacturers also didn't know about it in advance. They say (final word) the retreat from lead as suggested is 'impossible' so who was driving it ?
Did anyone talk to anyone else? Why are they proposing it ? What is going on ?
Collectively couldnt organise a p*** up and in a brewery.

Sorry but the manner and the subject of this 'utterance' is not just pathetic, it just beggars belief.
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Maybe someone might get an answer from the BASC regarding their involvement with the BGA, And why they have done a quick about turn on lead.
I'm getting sick of asking them and not getting an answer.
So I guess I must be barking up the right tree.
 
I am not a BASC member. But those who do need, now, to propose and demand a vote of no confidence in the current elected members of BASC and a vote of censure of the appointed members. Additionally there needs to be a holding to account of those at Marford Mill who were the initiators of this and they must by dismissal if they will not resign be made an example of. I have at 2.45pm today telephoned SACS of whom I am presently a member asking that in the interests of balance they also now publish the damning, nay excoriating, cartridge makers' response.
 
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25 Sharps said:
It paves the way for a legal ban, if the politicians decide to ban lead and the 8 biggest org's have rubber stamped it then there is nothing to stop them.

As for steel do you shoot 9 mm or .410 or 28b for that matter?? The best way to protect shooting is to get as many people into the sport as possible, like many I cut my teeth on a 12B baikal, not steel proofed and choked at 1/2 & full. you are removing the cheap route for many people to try the sport so less people will enter.
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I am sorry but i really don't see how this paves the way for anything. If use of lead reduces so does the imperative to ban it. I also don't see how the price of steel (which is often cheaper than lead) will bar entry to the sport. I can however give you a long list of reasons that i struggle to justify the continuing use of lead.

I do shoot a 410 and have recipes for steel loads so have no concerns. I also shoot an old hammer gun. I will have the option to use bismuth but quite frankly i would sooner use the best equipment available to shoot live quarry which, sadly is not my G.E Lewis
 
Here's the cartridge makers response for those on handheld devices that maybe can't use a link:

UK GAME CARTRIDGES

Joint statement by the Directors of the UK’s leading shotgun cartridge manufacturers

Statement: Friday 28th February 2020

From: Rodrigo Crespo of Eley Hawk, Paul James of Gamebore, David Bontoft of Hull Cartridge and Roger Hurley of Lyalvale Express



We, the UK’s leading shotgun cartridge manufacturers, hereby address the announcement made by BASC and other organisations on Monday 24th February, stating their “wish to see an end to both lead and single-use plastics in ammunition used by those taking all live quarry with shotguns within five years”.

Firstly, BASC and their fellow organisations had NO consultation with the UK cartridge manufacturers prior to the announcement being made.

The UK manufacturers have now discussed the matter collectively. We believe the organisations have looked at a limited amount of products and assumed that these are a viable answer to the issue at hand. Unfortunately, this is not the case. This is a major concern to us for a number of reasons, reasons we would have explained to the organisations prior to the publication of their announcement, had we been given the opportunity to do so.

Europe is currently experiencing a steel shot shortage. A move from lead to steel shot for the majority of UK’s shotgun ammunition will inevitably put more pressure on the market for raw material. This would create further shortages in the short term and push up the price as the steel shot industry invests to increase capacity.

The examples of overseas markets successfully transitioned to steel shot such as Denmark and the USA water-fowling sector, should not be used as proof of a solution. This is because the steel loads used in these markets in any significant volume are loaded with plastic wads. In addition to this, the US and Danish regulations allow steel cartridges to be loaded to a much higher level of performance than here in the UK, to increase the lethality of the pellet.

Limitations to performance levels of steel ammunition currently allowed in the UK mean that we are already facing tougher challenges when developing an effective steel load compared to those used overseas. Couple this with the move away from plastic wads and we are even further limited on performance. We would like to see an increase in the performance levels allowed before we can begin to develop loads effective enough to produce clean, humane kills in the various types of shooting carried out in the UK.

There are indeed a handful of non-lead ammunition options with biodegradable wads currently on the market however, at this stage it is simply impossible to make these commercially viable. We cannot make a complete switch over to these products within a five year period without substantial investment into the industry. BASC and its fellow organisations do not have an understanding of the manufacturing processes involved and are therefore in no position to determine the length of time required to evolve.

Tungsten and Bismuth materials are very limited in their availability and significantly more costly to produce than steel. This will result in huge increases in costs, based on raw material prices, for smaller gauge shooters who cannot use steel. This may price many shooters out of the sport.

Right now, we need to decide which to eliminate– lead or plastic? We cannot avoid using both. At present the only commercially available options are lead shot with fibre wads, steel with plastic wads or unaffordable premium non-lead shot. Shooters and land owners will need to consider these options and then decide which option is preferable going forward.

We must be clear and educate the organisations as to what is realistic and achievable. Although the development of non-lead, non-plastic alternatives are in the early stages of development, it will be considerable time before a full range of options are available to shooters. This process is a long one that will require vast research, development and investment.

Collectively, we do agree that the industry needs to evolve to become more environmentally friendly. We anticipate this happening as larger industries continue to invest in plastic alternatives which will naturally filter down to ours and other smaller industries. These major industries are in a better position to develop the alternatives, the smaller industries such as ours will then follow. It is unrealistic to expect a relatively small industry such as ours to be at the forefront of the development of such materials.

Moving forward we will continue to encourage the use of steel shot where required, but at this early stage we have no alternative option but to support the use of lead with fibre wads as the solution to the issue of plastic pollution. Where non-lead shot is needed, we encourage the shooters to collect their used plastic wads where possible and dispose of them accordingly, as we know many already do so.

Lastly, we are committed to investing into the alternatives. Our collective goal is to develop high performance ammunition for all shotguns and gauges using sustainable materials and therefore secure the future of shooting. We simply ask that the organisations and individual shooters understand that doing this within a five year window without significant support is IMPOSSIBLE.


Published 28th February 2020
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You just couldn't write a comedy show/horror film like it.
Don't talk to your members and don't mention anything to the cartridge manufacturers, unbelievable.
Let's face it our organisations are nothing but cash cows for their senior employees/members.
I am so disgusted with mine and be sure my area chairman of NGO will know it, although I am resigning from all of the organisations anyway.:mad::mad:
 
The transition period is so that all their members will forget by the end of it ,on why again they have been shafted!,and ignored,hmmm i wonder if i need a med cert to prove i,m lead free? and if i have enough bank balance to pay someone to answer. no matter 18 months left on ticket so i doubt it will be renewed anyway coz i aint paying any strange doc anything to look at a screen and press a button.
 
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