Carcase Quality

[308rws]

I'm not aware of any defence/exemption for presenting a carcass "unfit for human consumption" which I believe includes making a false declaration/labelling: Individuals: Breach of food safety and food hygiene regulations – Sentencing

 

[devon deer stalker]

The 'awarding body' is the authority for the qualification and Trained Hunter status. Therefore, also has the authority to both audit and/or revoke the award.

However, I'll wager that DMQ has never had Trading Standards/FSA come knocking to review the training record and qualification of an incompetent Hunter.

I don't think so, it's a qualification, just like any other qualification, down to GCSE's or up to PHD's, they cannot be revoked, but the stalker could be black listed.

I believe a better way would be for the DMQ to 'plant' a pupil into a course, it could then be audited, I did my L1 12 months after it first came about, there was no messing with the BDS run course, no grey area, and several failed.

 

[kieran222]

I think it's not just about the quality of the carcass itself but the environment the preparation is done. Sometimes I look at some ads on that fb page and see some nice clean carcasses offered for sale but looking at the disgusting garage, sheds and preparation area with clear signs of pests, I'm just surprised how people don't spot the lack of basic hygiene measures at all.

The premises should have been inspected for their registration as a food business which probably hasn't happened.
Unfortunately the expectation from a lot of people is that if they are buying a carcase on the likes of Giving Up The Game is that the stalker knows what they are doing. I have had a number of people buy carcasses from me and my one bit of advice has always been; do your own inspection of the carcase before buying it and not to assume that it will always be of the required quality.

 

[bogtrotter]

Just seen a post on Giving Up The Game from Billy Wyatt about a carcase someone had bought and had asked him to store in his chiller. He pointed out to the person and the site about the state of the carcase and that people should be looking for proof of DSC1. OK, I know people have their issues with DSC , but I found it very informative.

It just goes to show what some people will pass on for human consumption. I recently had a few couples round who wanted to buy carcasses and wanted guidance on carcase breakdown. The first thing I got them to do was inspect it and explained that if it didn't look or smell right don't buy it and don't assume you will get the same standard carcase from everyone.
On a separate note, I use Giving Up The Game occasionally to sell, I always take a deposit now to stop time wasters. Billy Wyatt has opened up venison to a lot of people and other than the odd time wasters he has to be commended for what he has done and the amount of Game he gives away. He is in the running for an award again this year, IMO he deserves it.

Proof of DSC1 is no guarantee of carcass handling or quality.

 

[308rws]

I don't think so, it's a qualification, just like any other qualification, down to GCSE's or up to PHD's, they cannot be revoked, but the stalker could be black listed.

I believe a better way would be for the DMQ to 'plant' a pupil into a course, it could then be audited, I did my L1 12 months after it first came about, there was no messing with the BDS run course, no grey area, and several failed.

Not sure. Unlike education qualifications, every 'Trained Hunter' is issued a Hunters Identification Number which is unique to them. This implies a register and/or registration of all Trained Hunters. I suggest that should the hunter be removed from the Register for incompetent carcass handling then they are no longer a 'Trained Hunter'. DMQ to confirm me thinks?

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Not sure. Unlike education qualifications, every 'Trained Hunter' is issued a Hunters Identification Number which is unique to them. This implies a register and/or registration of all Trained Hunters. I suggest that should the hunter be removed from the Register for incompetent carcass handling then they are no longer a 'Trained Hunter'. DMQ to confirm me thinks?

If were going to pick holes , how come someone can become an AW and only have his level two certificate less than a year?

I’ve known plenty of those in my time!

 

[potshotpat]

DSC 2 Badges obtainable on Evil bay.

 

[User00038]

Back in September, during the FC Deer Management Strategy consultation period, there was considerable resistance to the idea of a minimum standard to be required of all deer stalkers.

This interesting thread seems to be leaning towards supporting a minimum standard, if only to ensure that the FSA doesn't shut down our ability to cull and sell on our carcasses.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Back in September, during the FC Deer Management Strategy consultation period, there was considerable resistance to the idea of a minimum standard to be required of all deer stalkers.

This interesting thread seems to be leaning towards supporting a minimum standard, if only to ensure that the FSA doesn't shut down our ability to cull and sell on our carcasses.

If it comes down to a vote, there will be no minimum standards, if it became mandatory there would be no option but to comply if you want to sell your carcasses!

But i fear it will never happen in my lifetime

 

[potshotpat]

Anyone remember the old saying that everybody will eat a bucket of shite in their lifetime. Seeing some of the carcasses I've seen I don't think it was ment to be in one sitting.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

How can someone think they passed but in actual fact failed? You get a certificate with a number on it.

We certainly need qualifications (I say now I have bothered my arse to do them) but they need to be worth the hassle.

You can (could) qualify to sell venison to a dealer without ever having seen a deer in the wild or touched one let alone killed and gralloched a deer - I think the move to level 2 being the time you qualify is a good thing (regardless of the new 1 deer policy).

To be honest - I’m sure we have all put carcasses to the dealer that have been less than perfect but there’s surely a limit to the mess you will put your name to?

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Cannot disagree more strongly, he has put hundreds if not thousands of people in touch with each other and there are some really good game based businesses on there, I personally know a couple of stalkers who supply quality carcasses via the site as well. There are rogue stalkers stalkers everywhere, I recently got some pheasants dropped off which had been lying in a guys boot for five days, cold or not that is not how to look after game. Discretion needed about what you eat as always, don't shoot the messenger.

I have no issues with the group or the people in the group, just the owner of said group, who is and I stand by it, a tit.

He could do with a slap, unless he's massively calmed himself down in the last few years

 

[308tikka]

If were going to pick holes , how come someone can become an AW and only have his level two certificate less than a year?

I’ve known plenty of those in my time!

Because the system only takes into account ability to identify someone at the L2 standard. And that is done by the word of other AWs.

There will be a greater issue down the line after a period of 1 stalk assessments.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Because the system only takes into account ability to identify someone at the L2 standard. And that is done by the word of other AWs.

There will be a greater issue down the line after a period of 1 stalk assessments.

Dmq is who you know, not what you know!

The candidate is the one who suffers, especially if yhey do not have their own ground and have to pay for outings.

If you are going to sort this out, AW’s need to be audited regularly!

The whole system is corrupt, always has been!

This 1 outing lark is a shower of shite to get the numbers through the door, simple as!

 

[devon deer stalker]

Dmq is who you know, not what you know!

The candidate is the one who suffers, especially if yhey do not have their own ground and have to pay for outings.

If you are going to sort this out, AW’s need to be audited regularly!

The whole system is corrupt, always has been!

This 1 outing lark is a shower of shite to get the numbers through the door, simple as!

Hit the nail right on the head, especially the last sentence, I witnessed that first hand, I was not impressed.

 

[big ears]

Dmq is who you know, not what you know!

The candidate is the one who suffers, especially if yhey do not have their own ground and have to pay for outings.

If you are going to sort this out, AW’s need to be audited regularly!

The whole system is corrupt, always has been!

This 1 outing lark is a shower of shite to get the numbers through the door, simple as!

Not stalking but I’ve been training and teaching practical skills for all of my working life. If DMQ think that they can assess all that is needed for safe stalking and clean efficient management of the culled animal in one stalk they are in cloud cuckoo land.
I also hear that the whole buisiness of dealing with a shot deer can be spread out over a few animals. With bits signed off on each. In other words they don’t need to do the whole job start to finish on one animal.

The new level 2 is purely to make money for the DMQ providers and makes a mockery if those who worked on their portfolio for the original level 2.

BE

 

[Dunwaters]

The purpose of the certification, either DMQ or game handling, is to provide proof that you have been made aware of and demonstrated competence perform to a minimum standard.
The certification number is your personal ID when or if it comes to traceability. Your game dealer can use it to trace whoever presented the carcass.
The problem seems to be that the dealers
( middlemen) are not doing their job and not rejecting sub standard carcasses.
If they were, it wouldn’t be happening.
So please put the blame where it belongs, firmly on the guys who are accepting the sub standard product, processing it and moving it on.

 

[big ears]

The purpose of the certification, either DMQ or game handling, is to provide proof that you have been made aware of and demonstrated competence perform to a minimum standard.
The certification number is your personal ID when or if it comes to traceability. Your game dealer can use it to trace whoever presented the carcass.
The problem seems to be that the dealers
( middlemen) are not doing their job and not rejecting sub standard carcasses.
If they were, it wouldn’t be happening.
So please put the blame where it belongs, firmly on the guys who are accepting the sub standard product, processing it and moving it on.

That’s a cop out. Yes the dealers should reject and not pay for crap carcasses BUT to be able to put a carcass in a game dealer you need a trained hunter number. The clue is in the name TRAINED.
The DMQ falls well short of those being trained and assessed properly. They have made it easier to pass because they see it as a cash cow. As a consequence the DMQ must shoulder some of the responsibility of poor carcass management as they are the ones setting the bar very low.

 

[Overlay]

Overall the standards have dropped with this modern age, some people shoot a rifle and thinks thats it until a gralloch comes along they then get their mate to show em how its done and there you have it standards go down the pan

DMQ is a great learning curve but it doesn’t stop there, its the start of the individual learning to do things properly

recently there was on here where a thread stating on how shite gamedealers were in taking carcases and the price thereof

going on whats surfaced on this thread its a wonder gamedealers don't just take farmed deer, head shot with copper ammunition from a passed larder they need to turn a profit same as any other business, you cant really blame them for price structuring to suit the lower levels of shot placement, gralloch and hygiene skills of individuals.

to get top money everyone has to turn out top grade carcasses there ain’t no short cut, stalkers offloading badly shot and bad gralloch skills are digging a pit for which all deer stalkers will pay the price low intake and low price and what will eventually happen hygiene wise its a scenario that will happen

its nothing to do with DMQ its the individual not doing enough and or blatantly don't care, wanting to get rid of deer carcasses and the money thing as well = recipe for disaster

 

[8x57]

This whole debate just confirms the comments @cyberstag made regarding professional standards and consistent known quality products from deer farms, as opposed to the way many (but not all) wild deer cullers/managers/hobby stalkers (select as appropriate) operate in the U.K.