Fac air is it worth it ?
- Thread starter .222roebuck
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Kevgun
Well-Known Member
Beg to differ the Rapid was designed from the outset to be a FAC rated pest control Air rifle and the fact its still one of the best air rifles for that job some 13 years after after they stopped making tells most people all they need to know, I have the Latest Carlos fandango FX IMpact MK3 . 25 FAC and I'd sooner shoot my Rapid MK2 fac any day of the week, much better built rifle It works week in week out with out having to keep rezeroing because of the shoddy barrel engineering, I agree about the HW100 not as a Sub 12 but rubbish as a FAC model.
I have made countless modifications to my FX Impact to get it to shoot as reliably as my Rapid, the Rapid hasn't been touched for over 6 Years, the Fa needs tinkering with even with a slight temperature change because there are far too many joints in it's design, in engineering terms this is called tolerance stacking, have a look at the way the barrel is mounted to the solid one piece block of a Rapid, then then look how FX have done it, even though the Rapid is at least 30 years older than the FX impact, the engineering on the Rapid is much stronger and built for a Pest control Rifle.
Kevgun
Well-Known Member
Because its a much better Rifle than the FX i'm afraid, I own 2 FX and the Bobcat mk2 is better built the the Impact M3Yes you have your romantic’s with rose tinted glasses out there for the rapid , god knows why
Rapid ? I had one a fair while , They had loads of issues like leaks etc. Indeed quite a few airgun specialists must have made a good living out of fixing them ! Likewise the other guns they made . I dont know the FX much at all it must be terrible to less reliable than a stock Theoben is all i can say .
Kevgun
Well-Known Member
I have several Theoben Rapid 7's and the trouble with them is that they get pulled apart and tinkered with, if left alone they are perfectly reliable one of have still holds air perfectly and I bought it in 2002 and not changed a seal on it. My Fac Model the last time I fitted a seal kit was over 6 years ago, which took about 15 minutes both my my MK1's are about the same, It is the most simple Air rifle to fix, and its True what they say "Simple is efficient" but each to their own. they did go through a shoddy quality control period though like most companies do and most likely short cuts were made.
Aye they did soon after they made the first Sirroco, it dropped off . Shame they had good original ideas at just the right time in history. I do suspect the clamp down regards our Government enforcing the firearms laws correctly regards airgun power and illegal alteration likely didn't help the business much
My answer, having now shot an FAC rated non springer air rifle for the first time today is YES!
Very impressed with how well it groups at 50 yards once zeroed and with the right pellets. Pretty sure groups could be further tightened if I fitted a variable powered high mag scope as the fixed 4-power Swarovski reticle covers too much of the aiming marks I was using:
K
Very impressed with how well it groups at 50 yards once zeroed and with the right pellets. Pretty sure groups could be further tightened if I fitted a variable powered high mag scope as the fixed 4-power Swarovski reticle covers too much of the aiming marks I was using:
K
One on top of two
Well-Known Member
Nice ! Very nice indeed.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
FAC Springers seem totally pointless to me.
Sub 12 does the job at sensible ranges- 30-40 yards. Although it's not especially forgiving of shot placement. Squirrels will often run from chest and neck shots- especially in 177 as the pellets just pass through.
Springer accuracy is limited because you can't use bipods/shooting sticks easily as the gun needs to recoil consistently. Springers can be as accurate as PCP- but it's an awful lot harder to be accurate with a springer. If you're used to CFs- it takes an awful lot of work to be v accurate with a springer.
Thus the limiting factor to a springer isn't it's power.
With FAC air- the benefit really comes out when you're shooting further out- up to 80 yards or more. And with a 22- chest and neck shots are more humane and shot placement is more forgiving. But you need to be able to hit a target at this distance consistently and in the hands of all but springer gods- that's going to happen an awful lot more frequently with a PCP.
Thus- if I was going to get FAC air- it would absolutely be a PCP. .22 OR .25 and they strike me as a v viable tool.
PCP also has the advantage of a quick follow up shot with minimal movement. Whether you need to shoot the animal again, or reload and take a second one nearby- a PCP with a magazine can do it where a springer almost certainly can't. Rolling around so you can wave your arms around to cock the gun again will scare any other quarry off.
You can buy FAC springers for pennies for this reason.
Sub 12 does the job at sensible ranges- 30-40 yards. Although it's not especially forgiving of shot placement. Squirrels will often run from chest and neck shots- especially in 177 as the pellets just pass through.
Springer accuracy is limited because you can't use bipods/shooting sticks easily as the gun needs to recoil consistently. Springers can be as accurate as PCP- but it's an awful lot harder to be accurate with a springer. If you're used to CFs- it takes an awful lot of work to be v accurate with a springer.
Thus the limiting factor to a springer isn't it's power.
With FAC air- the benefit really comes out when you're shooting further out- up to 80 yards or more. And with a 22- chest and neck shots are more humane and shot placement is more forgiving. But you need to be able to hit a target at this distance consistently and in the hands of all but springer gods- that's going to happen an awful lot more frequently with a PCP.
Thus- if I was going to get FAC air- it would absolutely be a PCP. .22 OR .25 and they strike me as a v viable tool.
PCP also has the advantage of a quick follow up shot with minimal movement. Whether you need to shoot the animal again, or reload and take a second one nearby- a PCP with a magazine can do it where a springer almost certainly can't. Rolling around so you can wave your arms around to cock the gun again will scare any other quarry off.
You can buy FAC springers for pennies for this reason.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
I have had success shooting squirrels off feeders with sub 12, 22lr and HMR.
The bigger the calibre, the further away you can be and thus make less of an effort with a hide etc and just enjoy being outside. The most pure is just sitting still in woods waiting- but it's not at all time efficient.
The bigger the calibre, the further away you can be and thus make less of an effort with a hide etc and just enjoy being outside. The most pure is just sitting still in woods waiting- but it's not at all time efficient.
tim@tcs
Well-Known Member
Thirty years ago they were ground breaking long before pcp was even a non fac option!
That said time moves on!
There is a big difference in cheap end PCP and something truly decent ! The same applies to FAC air springers ! Guns like the Webley Patriot are horrendous ! A Venom 80 a totally different think a TX lilkewise , it was a design sold to air arms basically a production Venom . Needs to be under 20 ftlb , 15 ftlb is a real sweet , reliable tool ! They are also constantly ready to go deal with a problem .
Personally i dont like PCP fac at the higher powers and got rid of mine . Everything a 30 ft lb plus airgun can do a 22lr can do just as well with greater reliability , less hassle and way less cost .
Its good folks like a certain thing and it obviously keeps a lot of folks in work in the gunshops and manufacture of airguns in the UK
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
What would be good is an Xmas shoot-off between @Bowland blades and his .22lr & @villaman with his Fac air to definitively give us the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth as to which is the best... Birmingham looks halfway to me 
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
What's the point in a 15 ft lb FAC air ? What can a 15 ft lb gun do that a 12 ft lb can't?
I'm sure that a super smooth tuned fac springer will shoot as well as a tuned sub 12 springer. But that still doesn't tackle the limitations I mentioned. Ultimate accuracy at range, shooting off sticks/bipod, hold sensitivity, quick reload etc.
In the eyes of most- 35ft lbs of FAC air can safely shoot a 50 yard squirrel in a tree with no backstop- and a few hundred metres of backdrop. Doing this with a 22LR would be madness.
Totally agree re the other disadvantages of FAC air- largely cost and complexity. To some- its worth it.
I have 22lr as well CZ 457 that thing is so accurate even at 100+ yards , but what I’m saying is , FAC air is so more versatile which it is . I can shoot 13.4 , 14.3 , 16, 18 ,21 gr pellets . 20, 21, 22 & 23 gr slugs from my crown.22 all at different speeds from 750 -955 fps . My longest shot with .22 FAC using 22 gr slug 189 yard , witnessedWhat would be good is an Xmas shoot-off between @Bowland blades and his .22lr & @villaman with his Fac air to definitively give us the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth as to which is the best... Birmingham looks halfway to me
LeftHandGuy
Well-Known Member
One thing that does "spring" to mind is that it can't get you arrested for illegally breaking the 12 ft/lb limit for a non-FAC air rifle. Maybe that's valuable, and maybe it's not. <12 to ~15 is an increase of at least 20%, more realistically since almost all non-FAC air rifles are substantially below the limit to account for variations in pellet weight, ambient temperature etc. Once it's "on ticket" you're safe in a sense. You don't even need to know.
My first "firearm" was a Webley Patriot - and to be fair, probably the most useful thing it did for me was to get my first FAC granted - not a gun I miss owning terribly, although it was accurate and had a very good trigger.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
Hmmmm- provided a springer doesn't have a new spring- and its not set at 11.9 ft lbs- it's vv unlikely to creep over IMO.
I take your point. I suppose a fac springer is reassuring it can't be over powered. But with that comes the additional responsibility. It's rather handy having a sub 12 in the car. You can leave it out of sight quite safely without any real concerns. Good for the occasional rabbit crow etc when you have a large cf. Or a few rats when it's too dark to stalk.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
It wouldn't quite work how you're thinking in this country.. it's either a sub-12ft-lb air rifle or it's Fac and is specifically down on your ticket as such with serial numbers etc, so even if you have let's say .22 Fac on your ticket and own let's say an FX Crown in .22 Fac.... and you also own another FX Crown in .22 sub-12-ft-lb and you're sub 12 air rifle was tested and found to be over the limit you would still be in trouble.
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