I think others would like to see a failure in a moderator before they chose to buy one. I wouldn’t like the same thing happening to them. I don’t think publicising the failure will have any baring on any investigations that are taking place.
Freyr and Devik
- Thread starter deerstalker.308
- Start date
Magnificent 7
Well-Known Member
This is mine after less than 100 rounds not happy and I'd say a phone call to That ever so helpful man at clunge guns.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. As before a quick spray of WD40 is my regime every time, not sure whether it neutralises the chemical residues or just coats the internal surfaces an occasionally I do get a puff of “smoke“ but never flame and this is usually only the case if shooting again within a day or so of spraying. My Utra and Ts have many thousands of rounds through them including some extensive range days with 308 and 6.5 and still look good through the borescope. So I will continue to use WD 40 - other penetrants are available!
hedge hunter
Well-Known Member
They need taking off the selfs full stop and returning too were the are manufactured. All that money get a jet z and forget about the worry
what does?
If you are talking about F&D then I don’t see why? I have one and it’s the best mod I’ve ever owned and I am planning on buying another one. Ask yourself, how many people on this thread have actually seen, FIRST HAND, a F&D mod fail?
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bluesako
Well-Known Member
just binned a t4 mod of my 223 rem, its had 1000,s of rounds through it, and im not very happy about it, ive had it for 14 years, things dont last nowdays there not built proper, im thinking of complaining, just looking at the prices for f/d mods jeez how much? i dont know about titanium they should be platinum, for that price bs
hedge hunter
Well-Known Member
T4 gone after thousands of rounds .fourteen years old and its let you down that's disgusting. Get it sent back must be made of bog paper
hedge hunter
Well-Known Member
Pat I would love too have had one of the FD mods and I very nearly bought one until I saw the bad press they were getting. I'm glad yours is a good one and safe pal.but you cant ignore wots been said
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
All things being equal, I think the concerns are massively outweighed by the number of happy customers, there are scant details if any to accompany the various defective ones, no info being presented about the scenarios under which they have failed, the issue I raised at the start of this thread was about misleading marketing, believing I was being sold titanium and not aluminium, and I do not see that those corrosion issues bear any resemblance to the outer case failing as they have been photographed. There are also many images of damaged mods of all makes floating around the Internet, but getting to the nub of what actually caused it is anyone’s guess.
there could be a multitude of reasons caused by external forces which have caused them to explode, as I said in a previous post, they could have suffered a knock/drop/damage which is not being disclosed so, make your own mind up, I have, and I, like Pat, love my mod, it’s the lightest mod which achieves good sound reduction i have ever used. I wouldn’t entertain buying from the importer given how they dealt with me and my issue, but that is a different matter.
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My problem with threads like this one is that there is lots of hearsay, speculation and hunting of witches. But when you get right down to it there is very little genuine first hand evidence. Add in some pictures that show damage to mods but lack a full narrative from the person who was actually there when the damage occurred. Then you put into the mix personal agenda’s which could be perfectly innocent but could just as easily be driven by less honourable factors, settling old scores or plain old muck spreading, and you potentially have a very misleading forum thread.
I have no problem when someone comes on the forum and says, I want to let you know what happened to me. Then the issue can be discussed with the benefit of facts and first hand experience.
I bought my F&D mod from Ed at Edinburgh Rifles. After explaining to Ed that this mod would be used almost daily for deer stalking and in all conditions, I took Ed’s expert advice and bought the F&D. Ed told me that the F&D mods are super light, super strong and the best mod on the market. So, if Ed later discovered this wasn’t the case and I was in fact hauling around a potentially dangerous piece of kit that isn’t suited to daily use, I would expect Ed or one of his guys to contact me, explain the dangers and offer a solution to protect me, my clients and his reputation.
To date, Ed hasn’t been in contact, nor has anyone else from his shop so I continue to assume that the mod he sold me is fit for the purpose he sold it to me for.
One person on this thread who I do have a great deal of time for is DS.308 who has provided first hand factual information, pictures and a clear explanation for the problems he experienced.
I have no problem when someone comes on the forum and says, I want to let you know what happened to me. Then the issue can be discussed with the benefit of facts and first hand experience.
I bought my F&D mod from Ed at Edinburgh Rifles. After explaining to Ed that this mod would be used almost daily for deer stalking and in all conditions, I took Ed’s expert advice and bought the F&D. Ed told me that the F&D mods are super light, super strong and the best mod on the market. So, if Ed later discovered this wasn’t the case and I was in fact hauling around a potentially dangerous piece of kit that isn’t suited to daily use, I would expect Ed or one of his guys to contact me, explain the dangers and offer a solution to protect me, my clients and his reputation.
To date, Ed hasn’t been in contact, nor has anyone else from his shop so I continue to assume that the mod he sold me is fit for the purpose he sold it to me for.
One person on this thread who I do have a great deal of time for is DS.308 who has provided first hand factual information, pictures and a clear explanation for the problems he experienced.
Magnificent 7
Well-Known Member
I'll let you know how I go on as I'm phoning them in the morning regarding mine also
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hedge hunter
Well-Known Member
Never heard of a jet z failing no doubt I'm going too be proved wrong .like I say I was going too buy one but knowing my luck I will get stuck with a wrong un.i will stick too wot I know works
With the added bonus that if you run out of ammo you can take it off and beat bambi to death with it.
joking aside, they are a bloody good mod and I’ve also never heard of one failing.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Poor ol thing deserves a state funeral. Mine however is still going strong as are the T8s and the Utra after thousands of rounds through each - sometimes weight is defo not everything!
Out of curiosity I took a look at F&D's maintenance instructions. Which are comprehensive, show some of the internal design, and make sense to me. Though they do seem very high maintenance. Nevertheless the design seems ingenious and doubtless not inexpensive to manufacture. So I am not knocking that aspect.
www.freyr-devik.no
Worth a read all the way through. Doubtless all owners have studied these and follow them scrupulously, every time they are used.
Perhaps not so practical for those who use them regularly, even on a daily basis. If so, the recommendation is simply to spray oil inside after every use. Perhaps WD40 is not a bad choice, having water dispersing properties, and as F&D say, oil is the best stuff for loosening powder residues, maybe also encouraging them to be blown out and reach an equilibrium.
My thoughts, from skimming these:
The materials (predominantly aluminium) are stated to be subject to corrosion from damp powder residues. The products of combustion (actually deflagration) of nitro powders are well known, being a strong cocktail of solids and gases which form e.g. nitric and nitrous acids in combination with humidity. As well as water being one of the products.
My guess is that any such internal corrosion/pitting of the outer parts could set up a stress concentrator, maybe significantly weakening it, invisibly. And of course get at the inner parts as well.
The best way to minimise this is to completely strip and clean after every use. Leaving some oil inside. Apparently this is also of benefit in reducing "first round pop"
The rear high pressure section is not intended to be user serviceable, other than to spray oil inside.
The ones in the "exploded photos (unclear if these are both the same one, but at a glance there do appear to be significant differences between the two photos, but now I'm not so sure, so may have mislead on a previous post, nevertheless it did come apart rather spectacularly)" are the "featherweight" sort with the baffle stack inner tube and the sort of muzzle brake section in the forward part.
The "Titanium" version does not have this inner tube surrounding the baffles, and if there is a muzzle brake in the baffle stack it must protrude into the rear high pressure section.
These are not designed for heavy use, no more than twenty shots at a time is stated, then allowed to cool thoroughly, without any insulating covering. I would suggest that repeated overheating might, over time, weaken the aluminium alloys chosen. The thermal path on these doesn't look great, particularly on the featherweight, where the baffle stack and slip on tube essentially insulate it from the outer tube, due to the "air gap" between them. Even if the outer tube seems to be cool enough, maybe the insides could still be toasty hot. Just my supposition.
The choice of which sort to buy must consider the sorts of pressures and gas volumes likely to be experienced. For example say a 16" barrelled .308 will have higher muzzle pressure, gas velocity, and higher (because hotter) gas volume than a 24" version. I don't see this reflected in the specifications.
Some snippets:
After shooting, a silencer will be humid on the inside and it can take some days for it to dry if it is not opened. During this drying time the internal components can corrode. This is why we have designed our suppressors to be opened easily. This also allows the suppressors to be oiled on the inside before shooting and thereby eliminate the so called “first round pop”.
Optimally maintenance should be done after each shooting session. Unscrew the front. For the featherweight models you should also take out the inner tube. This will allow the internal components to dry immediately. If for some reason it is not possible to open the suppressor, spray some gun oil inside and let it dry.
When it comes to the Featherweight line you should pay special attention to the contact area between the inner tube and the baffle stack. If this is not done the inner tube will eventually stick to the baffle stack. It is recommended to put grease on the sides of the bafflestack before putting the inner tube on this will make later disassembly easier.
Oil works best for dissolving powder residue.
The featherweight line and the Freyr 280 Titanium have a slightly different construction, but even so they have the same maintenance procedure.
1.0pen the suppressor, spray plain gun oil on to the inside parts and into the rear chamber.
2. Oil lightly and wipe the powder residues. When it comes to the Featherweight line you should pay special attention to the contact area between the inner tube and the baffle stack. If this is not done the inner tube will eventually stick to the baffle stack. It is recommended to put grease on the sides of the bafflestack before putting the inner tube on this will make later disassembly easier.
3. Grease the threads before assembly. It is not necessary to clean the silencer completely.
4. Use silicon based o-ring grease for the o-ring at the front. “Molycote 111 for example”
It is not recommended to shoot series longer than 20 shots without allowing the silencer to cool down. The silencers are intended for civilian use only.
Improper use may result in injury and damage to equipment.
USE & MAINTENENCE | freyr-devik
www.freyr-devik.no
Worth a read all the way through. Doubtless all owners have studied these and follow them scrupulously, every time they are used.
Perhaps not so practical for those who use them regularly, even on a daily basis. If so, the recommendation is simply to spray oil inside after every use. Perhaps WD40 is not a bad choice, having water dispersing properties, and as F&D say, oil is the best stuff for loosening powder residues, maybe also encouraging them to be blown out and reach an equilibrium.
My thoughts, from skimming these:
The materials (predominantly aluminium) are stated to be subject to corrosion from damp powder residues. The products of combustion (actually deflagration) of nitro powders are well known, being a strong cocktail of solids and gases which form e.g. nitric and nitrous acids in combination with humidity. As well as water being one of the products.
My guess is that any such internal corrosion/pitting of the outer parts could set up a stress concentrator, maybe significantly weakening it, invisibly. And of course get at the inner parts as well.
The best way to minimise this is to completely strip and clean after every use. Leaving some oil inside. Apparently this is also of benefit in reducing "first round pop"
The rear high pressure section is not intended to be user serviceable, other than to spray oil inside.
The ones in the "exploded photos (unclear if these are both the same one, but at a glance there do appear to be significant differences between the two photos, but now I'm not so sure, so may have mislead on a previous post, nevertheless it did come apart rather spectacularly)" are the "featherweight" sort with the baffle stack inner tube and the sort of muzzle brake section in the forward part.
The "Titanium" version does not have this inner tube surrounding the baffles, and if there is a muzzle brake in the baffle stack it must protrude into the rear high pressure section.
These are not designed for heavy use, no more than twenty shots at a time is stated, then allowed to cool thoroughly, without any insulating covering. I would suggest that repeated overheating might, over time, weaken the aluminium alloys chosen. The thermal path on these doesn't look great, particularly on the featherweight, where the baffle stack and slip on tube essentially insulate it from the outer tube, due to the "air gap" between them. Even if the outer tube seems to be cool enough, maybe the insides could still be toasty hot. Just my supposition.
The choice of which sort to buy must consider the sorts of pressures and gas volumes likely to be experienced. For example say a 16" barrelled .308 will have higher muzzle pressure, gas velocity, and higher (because hotter) gas volume than a 24" version. I don't see this reflected in the specifications.
Some snippets:
After shooting, a silencer will be humid on the inside and it can take some days for it to dry if it is not opened. During this drying time the internal components can corrode. This is why we have designed our suppressors to be opened easily. This also allows the suppressors to be oiled on the inside before shooting and thereby eliminate the so called “first round pop”.
Optimally maintenance should be done after each shooting session. Unscrew the front. For the featherweight models you should also take out the inner tube. This will allow the internal components to dry immediately. If for some reason it is not possible to open the suppressor, spray some gun oil inside and let it dry.
When it comes to the Featherweight line you should pay special attention to the contact area between the inner tube and the baffle stack. If this is not done the inner tube will eventually stick to the baffle stack. It is recommended to put grease on the sides of the bafflestack before putting the inner tube on this will make later disassembly easier.
Oil works best for dissolving powder residue.
The featherweight line and the Freyr 280 Titanium have a slightly different construction, but even so they have the same maintenance procedure.
1.0pen the suppressor, spray plain gun oil on to the inside parts and into the rear chamber.
2. Oil lightly and wipe the powder residues. When it comes to the Featherweight line you should pay special attention to the contact area between the inner tube and the baffle stack. If this is not done the inner tube will eventually stick to the baffle stack. It is recommended to put grease on the sides of the bafflestack before putting the inner tube on this will make later disassembly easier.
3. Grease the threads before assembly. It is not necessary to clean the silencer completely.
4. Use silicon based o-ring grease for the o-ring at the front. “Molycote 111 for example”
It is not recommended to shoot series longer than 20 shots without allowing the silencer to cool down. The silencers are intended for civilian use only.
Improper use may result in injury and damage to equipment.
Hey Sharpie,
I rarely go to the range but did do some load development with my 6.5 Swede (fitted with F&D 196) in the early days. My experience was that due to the light construction, a string of 5 would result in the mod being very hot. So I found 5 was the maximum and 3 was about right with decent cooling times between strings. For me this is fine as I am a deer stalker and not into target work. But you might have hit on a potential issue. Based on my experience, a string of 20 shots without any cooling time would see the mod way beyond what I would consider safe temperatures. Why F&D suggest 20 is frankly a bit of a mystery to me?
I rarely go to the range but did do some load development with my 6.5 Swede (fitted with F&D 196) in the early days. My experience was that due to the light construction, a string of 5 would result in the mod being very hot. So I found 5 was the maximum and 3 was about right with decent cooling times between strings. For me this is fine as I am a deer stalker and not into target work. But you might have hit on a potential issue. Based on my experience, a string of 20 shots without any cooling time would see the mod way beyond what I would consider safe temperatures. Why F&D suggest 20 is frankly a bit of a mystery to me?
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
All of that is, believe it or not what I do every time I fire a shot through mine, it’s really not as much of a faff as it makes it sound, and takes all of 2 minutes before being tucked away for the next outing.Out of curiosity I took a look at F&D's maintenance instructions. Which are comprehensive, show some of the internal design, and make sense to me. Though they do seem very high maintenance. Nevertheless the design seems ingenious and doubtless not inexpensive to manufacture. So I am not knocking that aspect.
USE & MAINTENENCE | freyr-devik
Worth a read all the way through. Doubtless all owners have studied these and follow them scrupulously, every time they are used.
Perhaps not so practical for those who use them regularly, even on a daily basis. If so, the recommendation is simply to spray oil inside after every use. Perhaps WD40 is not a bad choice, having water dispersing properties, and as F&D say, oil is the best stuff for loosening powder residues, maybe also encouraging them to be blown out and reach an equilibrium.
My thoughts, from skimming these:
The materials (predominantly aluminium) are stated to be subject to corrosion from damp powder residues. The products of combustion (actually deflagration) of nitro powders are well known, being a strong cocktail of solids and gases which form e.g. nitric and nitrous acids in combination with humidity. As well as water being one of the products.
My guess is that any such internal corrosion/pitting of the outer parts could set up a stress concentrator, maybe significantly weakening it, invisibly. And of course get at the inner parts as well.
The best way to minimise this is to completely strip and clean after every use. Leaving some oil inside. Apparently this is also of benefit in reducing "first round pop"
The rear high pressure section is not intended to be user serviceable, other than to spray oil inside.
The ones in the "exploded photos (unclear if these are both the same one, but at a glance there do appear to be significant differences between the two photos, but now I'm not so sure, so may have mislead on a previous post, nevertheless it did come apart rather spectacularly)" are the "featherweight" sort with the baffle stack inner tube and the sort of muzzle brake section in the forward part.
The "Titanium" version does not have this inner tube surrounding the baffles, and if there is a muzzle brake in the baffle stack it must protrude into the rear high pressure section.
These are not designed for heavy use, no more than twenty shots at a time is stated, then allowed to cool thoroughly, without any insulating covering. I would suggest that repeated overheating might, over time, weaken the aluminium alloys chosen. The thermal path on these doesn't look great, particularly on the featherweight, where the baffle stack and slip on tube essentially insulate it from the outer tube, due to the "air gap" between them. Even if the outer tube seems to be cool enough, maybe the insides could still be toasty hot. Just my supposition.
The choice of which sort to buy must consider the sorts of pressures and gas volumes likely to be experienced. For example say a 16" barrelled .308 will have higher muzzle pressure, gas velocity, and higher (because hotter) gas volume than a 24" version. I don't see this reflected in the specifications.
Some snippets:
After shooting, a silencer will be humid on the inside and it can take some days for it to dry if it is not opened. During this drying time the internal components can corrode. This is why we have designed our suppressors to be opened easily. This also allows the suppressors to be oiled on the inside before shooting and thereby eliminate the so called “first round pop”.
Optimally maintenance should be done after each shooting session. Unscrew the front. For the featherweight models you should also take out the inner tube. This will allow the internal components to dry immediately. If for some reason it is not possible to open the suppressor, spray some gun oil inside and let it dry.
When it comes to the Featherweight line you should pay special attention to the contact area between the inner tube and the baffle stack. If this is not done the inner tube will eventually stick to the baffle stack. It is recommended to put grease on the sides of the bafflestack before putting the inner tube on this will make later disassembly easier.
Oil works best for dissolving powder residue.
The featherweight line and the Freyr 280 Titanium have a slightly different construction, but even so they have the same maintenance procedure.
1.0pen the suppressor, spray plain gun oil on to the inside parts and into the rear chamber.
2. Oil lightly and wipe the powder residues. When it comes to the Featherweight line you should pay special attention to the contact area between the inner tube and the baffle stack. If this is not done the inner tube will eventually stick to the baffle stack. It is recommended to put grease on the sides of the bafflestack before putting the inner tube on this will make later disassembly easier.
3. Grease the threads before assembly. It is not necessary to clean the silencer completely.
4. Use silicon based o-ring grease for the o-ring at the front. “Molycote 111 for example”
It is not recommended to shoot series longer than 20 shots without allowing the silencer to cool down. The silencers are intended for civilian use only.
Improper use may result in injury and damage to equipment.
Thank you, most interesting to see what's inside the (non user serviceable) rear section.
It seems to me that this is what contains the "titanium core" in your featherweight, judging by the super shiny piece, See below.
It seems that your policy of benign neglect has paid off, it does look like new. Again, not an inexpensive thing to manufacture.
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