Yes , standard practice , if you wanna join , crack on and send him details , if your not happy to do that ,,,,,,but ,,,,,,,
You won't be joining any/ most syndicates,without proof that you can own fac or sgc
Simple really
Kjf
Giving out licence information?
- Thread starter acorn house
- Start date
You won't be joining any/ most syndicates,without proof that you can own fac or sgc
Simple really
Kjf
acorn house
Active Member
It’s not a trust issue at all great people. it’s more I was unsure if I was supposed to as never had to do it for any land I have shot before. It seems I have nothing to worry about though.
acorn house
Active Member
Paranoia isn’t the issue it’s more I’ve been out the game for the last decade living over seas ans was unsure how it all works these days. Years ago I just went round a farmers house with a bottle of whisky and asked, and they normally let me crack on after flashing my licence. Never had to leave documentation before.
acorn house
Active Member
Yep they did ask for that stuff as well
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
A gunshop will take your name, address, licence details and detail’s of the firearm you have just purchased as they will then send a notification to the police with all those details.
When selling rifle ammo, similar details of to whom its sold is also recorded.
Ditto if I order a box of bullets.
These will all be either written into computer or written by hand into the ledger.
I think we can all be a bit paranoid. But should we be?
Daytime telly is full of stories about scammers and identity thieves and so on. We have the highest ratio of CCTV cameras per head in the world. I expect our personal details are recorded in a million places, from various government departments to every single company you've ever bought something off online. Your bank has so much information about your spending habits (now that cash is hardly ever used) it's unreal. I went to see England play rugby at Twickenham this autumn (I'm a masochist obviously) and all the burger/street food stalls had signs proclaiming, "card payments only".
Hmmm. Maybe a little paranoia is no bad thing.
Daytime telly is full of stories about scammers and identity thieves and so on. We have the highest ratio of CCTV cameras per head in the world. I expect our personal details are recorded in a million places, from various government departments to every single company you've ever bought something off online. Your bank has so much information about your spending habits (now that cash is hardly ever used) it's unreal. I went to see England play rugby at Twickenham this autumn (I'm a masochist obviously) and all the burger/street food stalls had signs proclaiming, "card payments only".
Hmmm. Maybe a little paranoia is no bad thing.
My earlier post was clear that it is unnecessary to copy an FAC, no paranoia just it can lead to problems.
On HOA renewal for three rifle clubs recently we discussed both the copying of certificate and access to FAC details. His advice was very clear hold only that necessary, check not record if possible and separate details, Lastly, keep them from prying eyes. Everyone wants to know what you've got on your ticket.
We discussed an incident which happened to me and my son. Simply, rifle on both our tickets, stored in armoury at a rifle club. Club official not sure of legislation entered our rifle on the club FAC (it had approriate slot as it was club ticket). He entered details onto that certificate and informed police. Son left club and brought rifle home. Son wanted variation some months later, received FAC back and guess what, rifle had been removed. As it was shared with me, I contacted my constabulary and again removed from my ticket. Had to then sort it at two constabularies, simply because that person didn't understand things.
I asked what would have happened if that person had removed it from the armoury and taken it. The FEO was clear, he had your FAC details and serial number so they would assume I had sold it and then regretted it. The police would therefore do nothing. The club official didn't have my sons FAC but did have everything necessary to make a transfer except a signature which of course is not validated on a firearm transfer.
Any person having access to your FAC details and your rifle can lift it and claim it is theirs. All that they need to do is copy your signature. Oh I forgot, you gave them a copy of your signature when you allowed them to copy your FAC!
On HOA renewal for three rifle clubs recently we discussed both the copying of certificate and access to FAC details. His advice was very clear hold only that necessary, check not record if possible and separate details, Lastly, keep them from prying eyes. Everyone wants to know what you've got on your ticket.
We discussed an incident which happened to me and my son. Simply, rifle on both our tickets, stored in armoury at a rifle club. Club official not sure of legislation entered our rifle on the club FAC (it had approriate slot as it was club ticket). He entered details onto that certificate and informed police. Son left club and brought rifle home. Son wanted variation some months later, received FAC back and guess what, rifle had been removed. As it was shared with me, I contacted my constabulary and again removed from my ticket. Had to then sort it at two constabularies, simply because that person didn't understand things.
I asked what would have happened if that person had removed it from the armoury and taken it. The FEO was clear, he had your FAC details and serial number so they would assume I had sold it and then regretted it. The police would therefore do nothing. The club official didn't have my sons FAC but did have everything necessary to make a transfer except a signature which of course is not validated on a firearm transfer.
Any person having access to your FAC details and your rifle can lift it and claim it is theirs. All that they need to do is copy your signature. Oh I forgot, you gave them a copy of your signature when you allowed them to copy your FAC!
Scotty99
Well-Known Member
Most landowners / land agents will want to see your FAC to ensure you have a deer legal calibre and have appropriate conditions for the quarry you will be shooting, also they will want to see if you have an open licence or a calibre for which the land has been cleared. They will want to see you have £10M public liability insurance for shooting related activities. Most now want to see some evidence of a degree of knowledge / competency so will expect to see DSC1 or equivalent as a minimum.
It’s a big thing to let someone have access to their land with a loaded firearm so it’s not unreasonable for them to do their due diligence. Keeping copies just means they have access to the record of said due diligence should they need to produce it if asked.
It’s a big thing to let someone have access to their land with a loaded firearm so it’s not unreasonable for them to do their due diligence. Keeping copies just means they have access to the record of said due diligence should they need to produce it if asked.
8x57
Distinguished Member
Landowner/ agent demonstrating due diligence. If they haven't done this and things go pear shaped they could be in a bit of bother.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
The reason for keeping a copy is that in the event of things going pear shaped at a later date you can unequivocally demonstrate that you did actually check that the new member had a FAC at the time you accepted them as a member of the syndicate.I don't suppose there's any real reason to keep a copy of someone else's certificates. All you need to check is their name/address and certificate number and they have the required condition that lets them do what they want to do. If I was a landowner, club secretary or whatever giving permission to shoot anywhere, be it stalking, clay shooting or whatever it is incumbent on me to ensure they are legal and to be able to show that you've done that if the poo hits the fan. The only other thing I'd want to know is the certificates expiry date, so that I could check with them that it has been renewed (probably sometime during the next year or two when the police find it at the top of their renewal pile).
You’ll never actually need the copy unless theres a serious problem and it may not be much use then, but its no harm to have it.
8x57
Distinguished Member
Presumably the club official is the club secretary as that is the person that the club FAC is normally issued to. Sounds like it is someone without the necessary experience or knowledge required to be in that position.
I presume that you had permission to store the rifle in the club armoury from both the club and the force/s that issued your FACs.
It's quite common for club members to assume that they can simply leave a firearm in a club armoury but it's not quite as simple as that. If they are permitted to store a firearm in a club armoury it's also often a requirement that the firearm is secured within the armoury to prevent unauthorised access to it by others with access to the armoury including club officials.
not ditto box of bullets , yeah for sales of loaded ammo and firearms . The bullet thing ended years ago now . shotgun shells they want to see your cert but don't record details
All done legitimately, the issue as you state 8x57 is he didn't understand the procedure and that is the risk of people having access to information and then believing they know the law. They then cause problems. Off the post but similar lack of knowledge, bought rifle from a gent who omitted to tell his constabulary that he'd sold the rifle. When I then cam to sell it a year later or so, received call from D&C saying the rifle was still on his ticket.
8x57
Distinguished Member
Why didn't D&C pick up on it earlier such as when you informed them when you bought the rifle?
its far from unusual come renewal for a force not to have done anything with a notice of you acquiring a particular item
who wants to store them GDPR nightmare !
Where a copy of FAC might be required is if any incident occurred subsequently which required official testing of landowner/syndicate due diligence in the vetting process.
A good compromise position that I have used in the past is to supply a copy of the FAC but with the address redacted. [Ethiopian Airways take a copy of FAC if you transit Addis Abbaba. Have your edited version ready to give them...]
I.e. photocopy your FAC with a Post-It stuck over the address. All the terms of your licence and your name and image are available and any official enquiry would be able to work from that.
In this scenario, you will have proven who you are to the syndicate/landowner with multiple ID [Drivers, Passport, etc] so he does not need the address on the FAC. Thus if the FAC document is filched by hackers it cannot, on its own, reveal locations of firearms.
EDIT: in recent memory, many involved in the badger cull in the Dorset area had their data not only stolen but also published on servers online giving home addresses. NOBODY wants to live with the knowledge that antis have placed your family home in the public domain.
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