hanavarian bavarian not sure what they can do

[Jagare]

When i track with the Kopov his tail do's not wags he's Concentrating on the tracking. If his tail starts wagging then he has picked up another trail.
May be wrong but they look like different dogs in the video . The dog with its tail down that comes upon the fallow looks like a young dog in training.

www.prokennel.se

 

[paintandpins]

Dogs are all different when tracking and the indications that dogs give for loss of track, live tracks, blood spots etc are individual to the dog.
This is one of the main reasons for training, you need to know your dog and the only way you can do it is by creating controlled points for the dog to fail so that a, it has to work it out how it regains the track and b, so you can see the indications that the dog gives on various stages of the track. The simplest example being teaching the dog to regain the track on a turn.

Bavs also can appear nervous when tracking as they have what is almost a safety switch which appears bred into some lines. You can watch them jump if a twig cracks or some thing takes off through the undergrowth. This keeps them safe when tracking as they are always alert and ready to get out of the way when mr boar etc comes and tries to broad side them.
This trait is highly valued as it keeps the dogs safe.
For the same reasons some continental handlers use what they call the red dogs on the more dangerous game as they think and don’t just rush in to find themselves twenty foot up a tree.

If i can give one peace of advice from this video it would be don’t lay tracks on railway lines as even a bav cant jump out of the way of a high speed 125

 

[Trufflehunting]

All sounds good stuff

Paintandpins mentioned

"The simplest example being teaching the dog to regain the track on a turn"
I would expect this to come natural in any hound especially into the wind, If I had to "teach" my young hound to cast I would be very unhappy.
I dont consider giving the hound "time"to regain the track as training only putting into practice its natural ability to hunt
I would expect it to be bred with that instinct.
I consider teaching a hound to sit as "training" as its not natural for the hound to want to do this
Failure to cast down wind, I could forgive for while, but would expect a quick learner espesially on a long lead.
"Bavs also can appear nervous when tracking as they have what is almost a safety switch which appears bred into some lines. You can watch them jump if a twig cracks or some thing takes off through the undergrowth"

Again sounds good, i hope you guys are not making this up to "big" these hounds up.




I have hunted hounds

 

[admin]

Paint and Pins is quite correct in what he states, and he is not bigging it up. There are a quite a number of members on here who have watched my Bavarian work and if from the right stock you will be amazed at what they are capable of.

But then I am biased anyway 8) but ask Fester, Tikka308, Robin, Wadashot, Bordersman, Pheasant Sniper, Oberon to name a few that have watched a Bavarian work.

My one regret is that I wish I had discovered this breed many years ago.

Sikamalc

 

[paintandpins]

I use the term teaching loosely. The tracking dog needs to learn how to figure scent problems out and what you do is engineer problems for the dog to solve, another example would be learning to cross obstacles such as roads or rivers. Instinct is important but without the opportunity to develop the skills needed to solve tracking problems it will not allow the dog to make all it can of itself, and to be fair its not the most important attribute a tracking dog needs
I wouldn’t be unhappy, I would expect it to happen, dogs nearly always over run turns at the start, that’s why you set it up to help them figure out where the scent goes, using more blood after the turn, making the first turns to the right etc.
when you are talking about hunting hounds they are a different ball game. casting downwind wont always help the tracking dog as the chance of it picking up a cold scent from hoof imprints from any distance is slim, down wind wont help the dog to learn to reach out for scent when bambi crosses a road etc. There are lots of areas out there where training a dog enhances a natural ability, putting control into quartering for HPR's being one example, dd and fx dogs being another.
Hounds are trailing a hot scent which requires different tactics and dog skills from tracking a cold scent, one that is noticable when you watch them is the speed they work.
Not made up Truffle just thought people may find this trait interesting in veiw of the thread about the bav looking nervous.
Never hunted hounds but guess you have to stay clear of the RSPCA

 

[Trufflehunting]

Email is a very poor form of communication

This thread has caused a great deal of interest looking at the numbers viewing the thread
I believe we are in agreement on most things, just you want the last word, you are welcome to it.
I dont have use for one of these hounds, I can find most missing deer with the dog I have.
I was interested enough to ask questions and you were good enough to answer them, THANK YOU
I find it fascinating, just because they are German dosent mean we cant learn from them (guess we would just need to shout at them more)
Regarding quary more than the type of hound, some become more smelly the more they are hunted (fox), in the case of hare I believe this is not the case, I also believe that hounds hunting a tired hare also smell damaged / crushed vegitation, I cant prove this, but suggest the same may happen while tracking wounded deer, along with a dash of blood.
As for the RSPCA it is easy to hunt a trail layed around the countryside, lots of yellow dusters been tracked down and killed. LOL
Good luck thanks for the help.
Hope your shooting improves and you dont need to use the hound so much.
Hope to bump into you one day and ask even more questions, email is a pain in the bum form of communication.
I have seen some fantastice venery and marvel at the level hounds noses can operate.
Regards Ian

 

[nell]

Hi folks, i've enjoyed reading this post and realise that there is a lot of passion out yhere regarding these dogs (as with all breeds i guess),but it seems to have gone off track slightly, question being What do they do??
I understand that they are second to none when it comes to tracking wounded or dead animals,but how often are we still on a follow up 4 days later?? or is this skill only used in competition on the continent??
After 4 days in warm weather,surely we would be searching for carrion, which be a different scent altogether
We lost an old lab last year on her 14th birthday,she was no deer dog ,but could smell death at a mile.A couple of years ago a friend called upon her skill to try and find a monster buck that had been shot in the arse by a Dane with buck fever .His dog had failed on this strong runner and was obviously keen to find the buck,Floss turned up trumps four days later

As you see it was no monster, probably paid for one though

Back to the specialists and what they do? Can the average recreational stalker justify owning one?? how much work do they need to train up and keep them keen??
Do they have other uses other than tracking? ie indicating unseen deer.

It has been mentioned the amount of these hounds spotted at the CLA, are they in danger of becoming a must have of the moment??

I also watched the clip on thr fieldsport channel,did'nt make me want to rush out and buy one

Nell

 

[Gazza]

I am very new to the world of blood tracking dogs and like Nell have enjoyed the contents of this thread. I am a very active stalker/deer manager but also very much a dog person. I would somewhat agree with Nell that a recreational stalker whose requirement of a dog is to occasionally locate a wounded beast does not necessarily need a specialised blood tracker and that a lab or GWP may well be a more suitable dog especially if trained to be a dual function dog.

As said as well as stalking I am a dog person having competed in working trials with German Shepherds for many years. I look to the training/development of my Bav as almost a secondary venture and not just as a dog I keep in case I wound a beast.

I truly would not want to see either the Bav or Hav becoming a "must have" dog. Not good for the breeds nor the inbuilt traits that have taken years to develop.