National wild venison standard

[sikamalc]

My response was not questioning your qualifications or knowledge, rather your claim that there are "very few" on this site who are as qualified and experienced as you about this subject (and many other subjects it would seem).

Trust me, there are far more qualified and with years more experience on this site.
There is also no hidden agenda on this site, so lets drop the subtle suggestions that there is. Furthermore people who join and are members of this site may well not post, many just read and never post.
Membership is now greater than the Shooting Times readership, so I have been told?

 

[big ears]

Trust me, there are far more qualified and with years more experience on this site.
There is also no hidden agenda on this site, so lets drop the subtle suggestions that there is. Furthermore people who join and are members of this site may well not post, many just read and never post.
Membership is now greater than the Shooting Times readership, so I have been told?

Think this thread is in danger of heading off into mud throwing.

Let’s not forget its reason for being started The disquiet about the introduction of a potential scheme without proper consultation and the impact on the ordinary stalker which this site is for.

Malc the hidden agenda, I hope, is not aimed at this site rather the lines of the BDS who are insidiously in many’s eyes trying to reinstate the DI by another name.

BE

 

[75]

Agreed, no hidden agenda with StalkingDirectory being suggested that I can see.

 

[devon deer stalker]

I don't think it's that bold. If a person had to tick 3 boxes I don't think there would be many of them.
1. Shot 100 plus deer a year
2. Run a farming business to red tractor standard
3. Do both for 10 -15 years plus

Agreed, I think NDS statement has been lost on some

 

[Leec6.5]

Trust me, there are far more qualified and with years more experience on this site.
There is also no hidden agenda on this site, so lets drop the subtle suggestions that there is. Furthermore people who join and are members of this site may well not post, many just read and never post.
Membership is now greater than the Shooting Times readership, so I have been told?

This isn’t about deer stalking qualifications, or experience, that went out of the window as soon as it’s new venison standard, supermarkets, audits started to get involved.

How many audits have you done in the last 10 years Malcolm, in agricultural food production, which supplies supermarkets?

I would hazard a guess NONE!

When I mean, you have no idea of the world of shite you have coming, honestly, you really do not have a clue!

This is a world I have lived, in worked in, shed blood, sweat and tears literally over, are you boys and girls ready for that!!!

And remember for 95% of you THIS is a hobby not a profession!

The biggest mistake of my life, was trying to make deerstalking a profession, it’s not worth the time effort and money and ball ache, for the little return that you get, and this standard will not guarantee you a penny extra that’s not how it works.

You are better off stress free, doing the best you can, the massive increase of deer numbers are not OUR problem and i can help think with this hair brained idea, the blame is being landed at our feet.

 

[sauer]

Agreed, I think NDS statement has been lost on some

It’s not the questioning of his experience in said fields …..

It’s just the righteous “ I know better than anybody else “ attitude ….

Folk read it and jist think …. Well I’m not saying it .

NDS you probably are right and I’d like to think you’re a likeable chap .. & thst we would get on over a pint …
But Jesus !!!!!

Do we need the resume/cv cock waving…. As that’s just how it comes across…. When in reality I’m guessing this is a subject you are passionate about and are trying to warn folk ?


Paul

 

[Leec6.5]

It’s not the questioning of his experience in said fields …..

It’s just the righteous “ I know better than anybody else “ attitude ….

Folk read it and jist think …. Well I’m not saying it .

NDS you probably are right and I’d like to think you’re a likeable chap .. & thst we would get on over a pint …
But Jesus !!!!!

Do we need the resume/cv cock waving…. As that’s just how it comes across…. When in reality I’m guessing this is a subject you are passionate about and are trying to warn folk ?


Paul

No cock waving here just truth!

And unfortunately people don’t like hearing it, there is no Gray in my life it is black, or it’s white there is no in between!

That I’m afraid is just the way I am and people have to like it or lump it.

And yes, this is my field of expertise and yes, I am passionate about it!

 

[homer]

When I mean, you have no idea of the world of shite you have coming, honestly, you really do not have a clue!

Getting back to the main question, what is your vision of whats coming next?

 

[Leec6.5]

Getting back to the main question, what is your vision of whats coming next?

If this takes hold, unconditional mandatory membership for all who supply certificated game dealers, leading to more paperwork, no guaranteed price increases and more cost to the stalker.

Just like red tractor once voluntary now mandatory , with membership costs and audit cost liable to the producer!

The producers are the stalkers, they are supplying the carcasses, to the game dealers.

 

[VSS]

If this takes hold, unconditional mandatory membership for all who supply certificated game dealers, leading to more paperwork, no guaranteed price increases and more cost to the stalker.

Just like red tractor once voluntary now mandatory , with membership costs and audit cost liable to the producer!

The producers are the stalkers, they are supplying the carcasses, to the game dealers.

With respect, Farm Assurance (Red Tractor) is not mandatory.
Neither will this Venison Assurance be mandatory. However, it may seriously restrict routes to market for those producers who don't sign up, becoming almost mandatory by default (as has happened with Farm Assurance in some sectors of the agricultural industry).
It's clearly going to favour larger scale producers, and stalkers who retail their own venison have been left out in the cold.
It also duplicates the perfectly adequate system that we've got in place already.

 

[homer]

If this takes hold, unconditional mandatory membership for all who supply certificated game dealers, leading to more paperwork, no guaranteed price increases and more cost to the stalker.

Just like red tractor once voluntary now mandatory , with membership costs and audit cost liable to the producer!

The producers are the stalkers, they are supplying the carcasses, to the game dealers.

And will it affect imports from the likes of NZ? Or will it make them even more affordable?

 

[Leec6.5]

And will it affect imports from the likes of NZ? Or will it make them even more affordable?

I don’t think so, at the end of the day it will all come down to pounds shillings, and pence!

 

[Leec6.5]

With respect, Farm Assurance (Red Tractor) is not mandatory.
Neither will this Venison Assurance be mandatory. However, it may seriously restrict routes to market for those producers who don't sign up, becoming almost mandatory by default (as has happened with Farm Assurance in some sectors of the agricultural industry).
It's clearly going to favour larger scale producers, and stalkers who retail their own venison have been left out in the cold.
It also duplicates the perfectly adequate system that we've got in place already.

Red tractor is mandatory in the world i work in, as the produce i provide is supplied to a red tractor certified processing plant that supplies supermarkets that the farm is audited for.

 

[VSS]

Red tractor is mandatory in the world i work in

I don't think so. You have to comply because your buyers demand it, but you are not forced to sell to those buyers. Except there are very few alternative routes to market. So by default, you have to sign up to Red Tractor, but it isn't mandatory by law for you to do so.

I am seriously worried that a similar situation could arise in the venison sector, just as you are.

 

[Leec6.5]

I am seriously worried that a similar situation could arise in the venison sector, just as you are.

this just screams of panic, of the big producers, with too many deer to kill and nowhere for it to go, so by creating this scheme, they are trying to tick boxes to get their produce into the supermarkets and a wider audience, but what they also have to remember is if New Zealand venison is £100 a ton cheaper than UK venison where do you think they’re going to go?

Also, this does not guarantee us the producer/the stalker any extra money at the Game Dealer, because I guarantee if it’s costing them it will cost us more in the long run, because they’re not gonna lose money that’s for a dead cert.

Put the best thing yet is, how are they going to make Wild deer traceable?

All farmed meat is traceable from the moment it opens its eyes, Wild deer, are not traceable before the shot that kills it, so how they gonna get around that one with the supermarkets I do not know, because one thing supermarkets do love, that’s traceability!

 

[sikamalc]

This isn’t about deer stalking qualifications, or experience, that went out of the window as soon as it’s new venison standard, supermarkets, audits started to get involved.

How many audits have you done in the last 10 years Malcolm, in agricultural food production, which supplies supermarkets?

I would hazard a guess NONE!

When I mean, you have no idea of the world of shite you have coming, honestly, you really do not have a clue!

This is a world I have lived, in worked in, shed blood, sweat and tears literally over, are you boys and girls ready for that!!!

And remember for 95% of you THIS is a hobby not a profession!

The biggest mistake of my life, was trying to make deerstalking a profession, it’s not worth the time effort and money and ball ache, for the little return that you get, and this standard will not guarantee you a penny extra that’s not how it works.

You are better off stress free, doing the best you can, the massive increase of deer numbers are not OUR problem and i can help think with this hair brained idea, the blame is being landed

This isn’t about deer stalking qualifications, or experience, that went out of the window as soon as it’s new venison standard, supermarkets, audits started to get involved.

How many audits have you done in the last 10 years Malcolm, in agricultural food production, which supplies supermarkets?

I would hazard a guess NONE!

When I mean, you have no idea of the world of shite you have coming, honestly, you really do not have a clue!

This is a world I have lived, in worked in, shed blood, sweat and tears literally over, are you boys and girls ready for that!!!

And remember for 95% of you THIS is a hobby not a profession!

The biggest mistake of my life, was trying to make deerstalking a profession, it’s not worth the time effort and money and ball ache, for the little return that you get, and this standard will not guarantee you a penny extra that’s not how it works.

You are better off stress free, doing the best you can, the massive increase of deer numbers are not OUR problem and i can help think with this hair brained idea, the blame is being landed at our feet.

I tired of your bad manners. And big ego.

 

[Leec6.5]

I tired of your bad manners. And big ego.

Just fact Malcom nothing else!

I don’t care if I offend people and I don’t care if people don’t want to hear it, if it needs to be said, I will say it!

I told you I wouldn’t change and I never will!

 

[Taff]

Just fact Malcom nothing else!

I don’t care if I offend people and I don’t care if people don’t want to hear it, if it needs to be said, I will say it!

I told you I wouldn’t change and I never will!

How to win friends and influence people.

 

[cookingfat]

Just fact Malcom nothing else!

I don’t care if I offend people and I don’t care if people don’t want to hear it, if it needs to be said, I will say it!

I told you I wouldn’t change and I never will!

Lee its the fact's in the way you see it!

I don't think you have offended many people with your blinkered views on this subject

Hayho it's going to be quite now.

 

[GeorgeC]

I can understand NDS's frustration and concerns. I have been involved with the food industry for 45 years and have seen how what starts as a "jolly good idea" turn into a bureaucratic and expensive by-product of all stages of the process. Red Tractor was one of those such ideas and for the farmer / slaughter house / processor has turned into an expensive and arduous / time consuming part of the work. The audit companies have taken what was simplistic and made it cumbersome and expensive to manage.

In fairness, unless you have been involved in this accreditation / audit product, and seen it grow, it would be hard for people to explain to others outside that field of work. It really was a painful transition for the "jolly good idea" to today's imposed standards. I only hope if this was to be implemented then it would be done so by individuals with the skills and knowledge to so, however if done by a bureaucratic quango I do worry.

There are no guarantees implementing this will provide either prices increases nor quality improvements.

Unfortunately, NDS is coming across a tad "energetically" on the subject but it appears that he has been involved with the Red Tractor scheme and has seen the pain and expense of adopting it. Assuming he has "blinkered" views would be harsh given his experience. He has always contributed in a "forceful and challenging" manner since I have been on here and whilst I don't agreed on everything he says, I can see why he feels he needs to share his experience in this case. People who are dismissing his views seem to be lighting his frustrations.