Permission question

[JackDavis]

Hi all,

Recently got my FAC back and it’s closed. Currently getting more permissions under my belt

My biggest issue is that I get asked by farmers / land owners to sort some problem foxes, boar etc out but because I then need to get them to sign a “permission form” to submit to the police before I can shoot I then loose out as they want it sorting straight away.

I’ve been told that if I ring the police and they confirm the land is cleared then verbal permission from the land owner is enough is this correct? I want to get an open license but if I only have verbal permission than surely this will hinder my request for open certificate as police technically would have no physical record of this

Thanks
Jack

 

[pete evans]

I used this scenario as the reason for requesting an open certificate several years ago and it was accepted. It was my first renewal if I remember correctly. It’s a legitimate reason.

 

[Dave Lakes]

I did the same as Pete Evans. Just make sure you give a comprehensive write-up so they have sufficient evidence to put on your file, because whether we agree with it or not, it is a departure from the normal process.

In my case I had also been asked to take care of injured deer that had been seen, so there was a welfare aspect to it. I also gave examples of existing permissions which the constabulary had cleared for me to shoot, which were very complex risk environments (houses, roads, footpaths, access land etc) and made the case that if I was deemed safe to use my judgement and perform dynamic risk assessments in that scenario, then surely I was safe to determine any other area.

It took many months regardless, so I’d get the ball rolling as soon as possible.

 

[Jeff8861]

They will not accept a verbal agreement. The fld will need to speak to landowner in the majority of cases. I suspect if you even get written permission they will still ring the landowner.

 

[Koenig]

Hi all,

Recently got my FAC back and it’s closed. Currently getting more permissions under my belt

My biggest issue is that I get asked by farmers / land owners to sort some problem foxes, boar etc out but because I then need to get them to sign a “permission form” to submit to the police before I can shoot I then loose out as they want it sorting straight away.

I’ve been told that if I ring the police and they confirm the land is cleared then verbal permission from the land owner is enough is this correct? I want to get an open license but if I only have verbal permission than surely this will hinder my request for open certificate as police technically would have no physical record of this

Thanks
Jack

Anything ‘verbal’ and firearms don’t mix as a grumpy old QM told me once….

 

[JackDavis]

Anything ‘verbal’ and firearms don’t mix as a grumpy old QM told me once….

This was my thoughts

 

[Stalker62]

I’ve been told that if I ring the police and they confirm the land is cleared then verbal permission from the land owner is enough is this correct?

Verbal permission isn't worth the paper it isn't written on...

 

[JackDavis]

Verbal permission isn't worth the paper it isn't written on...

Exactly my feelings as permission slip has always been the way as far back as I can remember

 

[Pete1774]

Regardless of Open or Closed FAC you should still get the written permission from the land owner, tenant, etc. for your own protection.
I have a stack of perm forms with my details already filled in (and a PEN) in my car. Then if I get a request to shoot I can whip out a form and a pen on the spot. 2 copies for each.

 

[VSS]

Three options:
1) Check with police in case the land has already been cleared. If it has, you're good to go.
2) If the land hasn't already been cleared, ask police to clear it.
3) Request an open licence, on the basis that your current closed conditions are hindering your ability to carry out essential pest control for local landowners.

Personally, I would go with option 3. That's what I did.

(Incidentally, when I got my first FAC I wasn't aware of the distinction between "open" and " closed conditions. I thought it was no different from a SGC in that respect, so I just went and shot wherever I could get permission. The ground did not open up and swallow me down to the depths of Hell, and I lived to tell the tale.
As soon as I learnt the difference I requested open conditions and they were granted immediately without question).

 

[User00040]

Hi all,

Recently got my FAC back and it’s closed. Currently getting more permissions under my belt

My biggest issue is that I get asked by farmers / land owners to sort some problem foxes, boar etc out but because I then need to get them to sign a “permission form” to submit to the police before I can shoot I then loose out as they want it sorting straight away.

I’ve been told that if I ring the police and they confirm the land is cleared then verbal permission from the land owner is enough is this correct? I want to get an open license but if I only have verbal permission than surely this will hinder my request for open certificate as police technically would have no physical record of this

Thanks
Jack

Been told one way of getting round this 'closed ticket' rubbish is putting a cabinet in another house which is outside of your police force's area of responsibility, or acquire a shooting permission of simillar location.

Just state that you intend to store rifles there and that you may go stalking in Scotland/Wales etc.

If they call up Police Scotland asking 'is this area cleared for X calibre' they will just hear a muffled laugh before the phone is hung up.

 

[njc110381]

Ah, the dreaded (and rather pointless) land conditions...

What I did back when I wanted my ticket open and my force wouldn't allow it was to get as many land owners on side as I could and run the police ragged. I'd literally only leave it a few days after a land visit, then request another somewhere else. Some of the places I had no intention of shooting, I was just using my contacts to take the p*** out of them and waste their time. At one point I had the office manager say to me "come on, this is getting a little silly now isn't it?!". My response - "not half as silly as the person who insists that this continues!".

 

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

If they call up Police Scotland asking 'is this area cleared for X calibre' they will just hear a muffled laugh before the phone is hung up.

I was in the office when a Police force from down south phoned the Headstalker and ask if the land was cleared for a 270, the Headstalker replied "no" , "well what is the land cleared for then ? " came the reply from down south, " it's not cleared for anything "the Headstalker replied, " well what do you use ", reply " a 338 lapua magnum and a 375 H&H ", guest got his ticket opened

 

[User00040]

I was in the office when a Police force from down south phoned the Headstalker and ask if the land was cleared for a 270, the Headstalker replied "no" , "well what is the land cleared for then ? " came the reply from down south, " it's not cleared for anything "the Headstalker replied, " well what do you use ", reply " a 338 lapua magnum and a 375 H&H ", guest got his ticket opened

It's a maasive waste of time to keep a list of 'cleared land'!

With all the talk of Police cuts, I would have thought a system which is not based in law, and presumably takes up a lot of time, would be in the bin...

 

[MAH]

verbal permission from the landowner is enough

I think you've been given bad advice
You always need written permission to shoot from the landowner*. Always.
I matters not if you have an open or closed certificate, you need written permission from the landowner*.
(* or owner of shooting writes, if that is different)
Check the HO guidance for yourself.

M

 

[JackDavis]

I think you've been given bad advice
You always need written permission to shoot from the landowner*. Always.
I matters not if you have an open or closed certificate, you need written permission from the landowner*.
(* or owner of shooting writes, if that is different)
Check the HO guidance for yourself.

M

This was my thinking as I’ve always been under the guidance is you get your forms signed etc

 

[shakey jake]

any land owner so desperate they cant wait, will be a pain, id also bet it wont be long before who ever does do it for them cant get out at the drop of a hat.
if you are putting in lots of bits of land, and they are all sensible you will get it open eventually

 

[reiver]

I think you've been given bad advice
You always need written permission to shoot from the landowner*. Always.
I matters not if you have an open or closed certificate, you need written permission from the landowner*.
(* or owner of shooting writes, if that is different)
Check the HO guidance for yourself.

M

No you don’t need written permission
A lot of land I shoot on is only verbal. I have shot on most of it for over 30-40 years . You only need to provide one piece of land for your renewal . Last year I just gave the flo the farmers phone no to check my details.

 

[Freightdog]

My advice, don't follow any of the above above! Read and understand the law regarding firearms use, understand your licence conditions and remember, ignorance (or 'I was told on a forum') is no defence.

You always need permission and evidence of it.
You can only shoot land cleared for calibre by the police (closed ticket)
It's not normal to have to send your permissions to the police, you have proved the need for firearms as you have an fac already.

If in doubt, ask your feo.

 

[.25-06]

It's a maasive waste of time to keep a list of 'cleared land'!

With all the talk of Police cuts, I would have thought a system which is not based in law, and presumably takes up a lot of time, would be in the bin...

It's not like they would share any responsibility for a fu## up anyhow. He who pulls the trigger carries the can