Shoot more Deer !

[south-nofolk-stalker]

To dispose of the tonnage of venison required. People have got to get off their high horse and expect not to get paid for their carcasses, you need to give them away!

Now I can hear the moaning it costs me XYZ to shoot deer, and do this that and the other, but how many smoke and how many regularly drink?

This weekend I’ve given away 20 carcasses, they needed shooting and if I get something in return happy days if I don’t what did it cost me?

£50 in fuel and bullets Or the equivalent of two packets of 50g tobacco? 1 meal and 2 pints at the pub?

Doesn’t matter to me, the larders empty, clean down and ready to go again.

You have to stop £££££££ shooting deer, is now a luxury and luxuries cost.

Simple as black and white I’m afraid

You either have to work out a way to get paid for doing it, or suck it up and get on with it or call it a day, you can’t worry about it if you want to do it.

You’ve got to realise that it’s gonna cost you and you and have to poke up with the hassle of getting rid of your carcasses, because if you don’t run them in, you’ve got a cut them up or you could just simply give it away, giving it away Route for me is easiest and less hassle and luckily I don’t need or worry about what it cost for me to do it.

A well-known outfitter, who will remain nameless once told me that as soon as ammunition can be developed to disintegrate the carcass, but keep the head the better!

And I’m afraid to say he is 100% correct

 

[devon deer stalker]

Sorry if you questions haven't been answered,I can only apologise. No excuses from me,as that's what I was told that all the answers were being collated and an email was going to be sent out to all those who took part in the webinar.

I will ask again tomorrow.

No need to apologise at all, not of your making

 

[tim@tcs]

I like the idea of feed stations.

I think they are run by charities but supported by the MNR/DNR depending upon where they are. The Irish took loads of venison in ready meal and raw packaged meat form to Ukraine where it was well received!
It’s a good use of surplus especially for the civilians in the war areas

 

[nun_hunter]

30mins exercise was the ruling. That’s a very quick stalk.

There was no time limit on going out to get food as long as social distancing rules were observed, no reason why the two activities couldn't be combined

 

[big ears]

Drop the "tags" idea, though.
It would have to be a straightforward levy per carcass, collected by the AGHE through a small percentage deduction on what the consignor gets paid.

That’s my thought. AGHE pays the levy. Ok they pass it into the stalker BUT how about if said stalker culls many deer and their population is seen to be in balance then they can claim the levy back from NE thereby giving incentive not to just take one for the pot, trophy cabinet?

Just a thought.

 

[big ears]

My ides is collecting the funding at the start when the stalkers purchase their tags.We need the AGHE's fully on board asking them to collect the marketing money and forward it on ,is more work for them,we need to make it easy for them.

But why should the stalker pay! All the risk then is with the stalker.
I would argue that the AGHE who want to expand the market put the money up front.
Yet again I see large businesses trying to get others to pay for what they should be doing which is supporting British stalkers not fleecing them.

 

[VSS]

My ides is collecting the funding at the start when the stalkers purchase their tags.We need the AGHE's fully on board asking them to collect the marketing money and forward it on ,is more work for them,we need to make it easy for them.

No.
That's a very bad idea.
That would be like me paying a levy based on my predicted lambing percentage, rather than on the lambs I sell for slaughter.
No reason why AGHEs shouldn't be expected to play a part in this. They stand to gain the most if the market picks up, and they're the ones already making the most. If their admin and record keeping is up to scratch (which it should be!) then a little bit of extra paperwork wouldn't hurt them.
Besides, if it was a compulsory levy they'd have no choice in the matter. Either do the admin, or lose their AGHE status.
A small levy on every carcass going into an AGHE (including those coming from Forestry England etc) would be the only fair way to raise the revenue for a marketing campaign.

 

[Alastair Boston]

That’s my thought. AGHE pays the levy. Ok they pass it into the stalker BUT how about if said stalker culls many deer and their population is seen to be in balance then they can claim the levy back from NE thereby giving incentive not to just take one for the pot, trophy cabinet?

Just a thought.

NE only directly involved with SSSi & SAC's and they are currently short staffed,so I can't seeing them having the time to administer. If we are all seriously trying to work together across the various strands of the sector, some sort of the new model is urgently required.

 

[VSS]

To dispose of the tonnage of venison required. People have got to get off their high horse and expect not to get paid for their carcasses, you need to give them away!

That's nonsense ^^^

You either have to work out a way to get paid for doing it, or suck it up and get on with it or call it a day,

That's more sensible ^^^

It's time you got of your high horse, and stopped deriding those who are trying to work out a way to get paid for it.
Just because you're not capable of making it pay, doesn't mean no-one is.

 

[Alastair Boston]

No.
That's a very bad idea.
That would be like me paying a levy based on my predicted lambing percentage, rather than on the lambs I sell for slaughter.
No reason why AGHEs shouldn't be expected to play a part in this. They stand to gain the most if the market picks up, and they're the ones already making the most. If their admin and record keeping is up to scratch (which it should be!) then a little bit of extra paperwork wouldn't hurt them.
Besides, if it was a compulsory levy they'd have no choice in the matter. Either do the admin, or lose their AGHE status.
A small levy on every carcass going into an AGHE (including those coming from Forestry England etc) would be the only fair way to raise the revenue for a marketing campaign.

I beg to differ.Sorry but I personally don't think its a very bad idea.The AGHE's don't stand to gain the most we all stand to gain collectively, as when all said and done,if we don't unite and work together,the end option isn't looking good.Yes, FE would be also purchasing the said tags.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

People get so hung up on the venison price and it is a pain when you are doing it as a job but honesty how many hobbies pay anything at all back?

I’d hope that community larders would lead to more deer being shot but I suspect that the majority of stalkers aren’t actually interested or capable of shooting a meaningful number because it’s actually quite a lot of work

 

[big ears]

NE only directly involved with SSSi & SAC's and they are currently short staffed,so I can't seeing them having the time to administer. If we are all seriously trying to work together across the various strands of the sector, some sort of the new model is urgently required.

I agree with your last comment. Where we differ is that you feel that the stalkers should be paying to increase the market, whilst I feel that the AGHE need to push to increase the market and pass on some of the benefits to the stalkers thereby incentivising them to go out and shoot more. This has to be the ultimate gain of any scheme that more deer are shot not profits increasing.

as with all farmers we need support from the centre not the centre increasing costs or red tape

 

[Tim.243]

That's nonsense ^^^


That's more sensible ^^^

It's time you got of your high horse, and stopped deriding those who are trying to work out a way to get paid for it.
Just because you're not capable of making it pay, doesn't mean no-one is.

There has been enough years to make a working system and yet there is not one....
Playing what to do with deer Ping Pong on a forum will solve nothing like lots of these emotive threads they run out of steam
at some point thank God...
There are a lot bigger players out there who will not take any notice in the slightest...

 

[VSS]

I beg to differ.Sorry but I personally don't think its a very bad idea.The AGHE's don't stand to gain the most we all stand to gain collectively, as when all said and done,if we don't unite and work together,the end option isn't looking good.Yes, FE would be also purchasing the said tags.

The idea of a levy is indeed a very good idea.
The idea of selling "tags" in advance to stalkers is a very bad idea. And I think it would be counterproductive.
Why not go with the model that already works for other commodities?
Abattoirs and fatstock markets collect a levy from primary producers of beef, lamb, etc. Why shouldn't AGHEs do the same for deer carcasses?
A couple of quid off a carcass won't affect stalkers much - most could recoup that by improving carcass quality - but don't expect stalkers to pay up front, or carry the burden of the admin as well.

 

[big ears]

I beg to differ.Sorry but I personally don't think its a very bad idea.The AGHE's don't stand to gain the most we all stand to gain collectively, as when all said and done,if we don't unite and work together,the end option isn't looking good.Yes, FE would be also purchasing the said tags.

You ever worked for the NHS?

This was the kind of thing they used to come out with when they were selling a bad idea

To quote barrack Obama “you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig”

Of course AGHE benefit if the market expands, also your system allows large collectives to take on large stalking contracts at the expense of the small scale local stalkers. Now that sounds a bit familiar doesn’t it?

 

[Twodogs]

People get so hung up on the venison price and it is a pain when you are doing it as a job but honesty how many hobbies pay anything at all back?

I’d hope that community larders would lead to more deer being shot but I suspect that the majority of stalkers aren’t actually interested or capable of shooting a meaningful number because it’s actually quite a lot of work

Whilst ‘some stalkers may not be interested or capable of shooting meaningful numbers because it’s quite a lot of work’ there are many others who are interested and capable but unable to shoot meaningful numbers due to lack of opportunities, many of which have been discussed earlier in this thread.

 

[tim@tcs]

I don’t see why stalkers should pay any more to sort out an environmental issue that is the country’s to bear and really not the fault of the average stalker on here. Professional stalkers have targets to meet, they don’t set the targets, it’s like blaming a car assembly worker because there are too many unsold cars!
Other synonyms are available!
The highways agency plants trees next to roads to screen the locals from the noise and that attracts deer and increases collisions!
The highway agency doesn’t pick up the tab for the damage!

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

I have put VSS on my ignore list as he is not worth my membership because I’ll only let slip with some not very polite language and earn me a ban again!

We are two people, obviously that have very different opinions on how to dispose or get rid of carcasses.

Anyway, going forward, I’m a firm believer of donating surplus, carcasses for nothing or beer donations, helps keeps the larder clear, ready to keep going.

 

[VSS]

I have put VSS on my ignore list as he is not worth my membership because I’ll only let slip with some not very polite language and earn me a ban again!

We are two people, obviously that have very different opinions on how to dispose or get rid of carcasses.

Anyway, going forward, I’m a firm believer of donating surplus, carcasses for nothing or beer donations, helps keeps the larder clear, ready to keep going.

 

[Sol]

The fact so many people offload venison to the game dealers is also slightly unfortunate especially in galloway, I would gladly pay £3-6 per kilo for an unskinned carcass in the right scenarios.

Was questioning it last night I want a fallow carcass for home consumption but everyone too my knowledge sells them to the dealers here.