you posted this picture, to show illegal activity allegedly. you say the authorities have been informed, so if the picture is genuine like you say, why are you worried about the butcher/ game dealers name being seen in the picture, this picture is now public info, was taken in a public place so no fear of comeback to you. so post and be damned.
Sudbury Butchers window display
- Thread starter Monkey Spanker
- Start date
What abut the processed meat hanging below it?
Tackleberry270
Well-Known Member
I think for those questioning the value of this thread, in my opinion the benifit is in highlighting how pointless all the rules and regulations are when nothing is enforced and people do as they please or are completely ignorant without any comeback.
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
It's not my place to do that I'm afraid. At the moment, it is nothing more than a couple of pictures to promote a topic of debate. It is up to the informed authorities to take whatever course of action they deem necessary. It would not be correct of me to try and affect that outcome.
MS
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
Harry, let's assume that this Roe doe was shot with a legal calibre deer rifle by a person with a valid FAC with a condition for deer on it. He could argue that he was unaware that he couldn't shoot deer at night or that there were seasons for Roe. He might even get away with it under the crop damage loophole that currently exists for shooting deer out of season. This may just end up with a caution and a re-education for him. Now then, if he had taken and passed the DSC 1 qualification, then there would be no excuse. He would/should know about deer seasons and night shooting. He would also know that the trained hunter exemption part of the large game handling section requires that if possible, the two sets of lymph glands in the head are inspected prior to a carcass entering the food chain. It's hard to achieve that with the head still attached! If we could make it that everyone who shoots deer has a baseline knowledge of what they are doing, then there could be no excuses for such behaviour.
Drinking and driving is illegal and everyone knows it. They have also had to pass both a theory and practical test to prove it! (DSC 1 & 2 ???). They therefore have no excuse when found guilty and should therefore expect to suffer the consequences.
My fear in this case is that the offending parties will claim naivety and get away lightly, whereas they could be hammered as a deterrant to others! Much of the problem in today's society is that there is no real deterrant anymore. Forcing such clowns to do some training may even prevent them from obtaining a FAC with a condition for deer in the first place. Why must we all continue to suffer the backlash and damage done to our 'trade' by idiots that have no idea what they are doing? Now I know that not all non DSC 1 holders fall into this bracket, but they should surely have nothing to fear by obtaining such qualification, if only to prevent such occurrances and therefore secure our future? We are under constant scrutiny from those that oppose what we do. Why make it easy by allowing fools to make us look bad?
MS
jimbo1984
Well-Known Member
I'm certain there's plenty of dsc level 1 holders who break the rules too. ! You ask what people have goto lose from taking the level 1 Erm 350 quid and 2 days off work for a start !! I'm self employed so that added upto well over 550 quid , hardly pocket change , courses or no courses a small minority of people will continue to break the law as its in thier nature
Si
Well-Known Member
I've never really thought about the cost but whatever it was, it was worth every penny..... It cost me £280 + 2 days off work @ £200/day and I payed my apprentice 2 days holiday (£30/day)
Total cost = £540
When I take the family away on holiday it costs a damn site more than that.
I have another issue with the photo. From the details in post #1 it was presumably taken a number of hours after it was shot, and rigor would have started to wear off then (as it is generally reckoned to be at a height around 12 hours after death). Given the angle the head is at, even if the photo was taken less than 12 hours after death, I would have thought the weight of the head would have pulled it down by then, even if some rigor remained.
For the sake of clarity, I would add that I have met MS a number of times, he's a top bloke, and I am not calling his integrity into question
- but he didn't see the deer himself.
For the sake of clarity, I would add that I have met MS a number of times, he's a top bloke, and I am not calling his integrity into question
- but he didn't see the deer himself.kickthedug
Well-Known Member
Don't know where the market is but the chap that shot the beast could have had a night license. Who knows!! To me it would seem, that in my short time stalking professionally they will give almost any numpty a rifle and I have had some seriously bad stalkers who have had more paperwork than me that still couldn't larder a beast properly if they tried. At the end of the day ye this was probably shot at night by someone who doesn't give a monkey's about the beasts welfare and just getting the shot on target was probably an achievement for them. But as unfortunate as it is, that is what happens and so long as there are poachers we as stalkers will continue to see this kind of thing. Why?? because there is money in it and wherever there is a pound to be had the scum will be trying to make the same £ as us. FACT!!
Clum........
Clum........
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
If most that decry DSC 1 that are already shooting deer are as good as they claim to be, then they do not have to attend the course! They can just register and turn up for the assessment parts which costs about £125. It doesn't have to cost the earth! However, having seen stalkers of some 30+ years experience attempt this, it was very apparent that they were not quite as good as they thought they were!
MS
jimbo1984
Well-Known Member
Im not knocking the courses value to a complete beginner but if you already have a fair bit if experiance then it's value is questionable and if your interested Enough in deer management to get a rifle and fac etc then a couple of stalks with a pro is much better value in my book and invest in a good book on the subject
jimbo1984
Well-Known Member
But why should they have to do the course in the first place?? As kickthedug stated he's seen stalkers with plenty of paperwork who didn't have a clue!! So I hardly think having the course will cure all the ills in the stalking world ..... People who want to poach and break the rules will continue to do so because that's what they are like !If most that decry DSC 1 that are already shooting deer are as good as they claim to be, then they do not have to attend the course! They can just register and turn up for the assessment parts which costs about £125. It doesn't have to cost the earth! However, having seen stalkers of some 30+ years experience attempt this, it was very apparent that they were not quite as good as they thought they were!
I don't agree. My Dad did his DSC I/II in his late 70's after nearly 60 years of stalking. Some ten years later he's still stalking and learning about deer. Regards JCS
jimbo1984
Well-Known Member
I agree you never stop learning about deer however that dsc course is not the be all and end all , sorry to offend anybody but I have a pros talker as a good mate who showed me the ropes and in that sense I'm very lucky do whe I got to the level 1 course I didn't take that much away from it
The more one looks the more one realises the Best Practice minded stalker is something of a minority when it comes to what the Industry we are talking about is prepared to sanction and for the most part gets away with. My experience anyway.
With regard to the role stalkers with or without 'qualifications' have to play in soliciting change c/o presenting carcasses of a single quality that screams but one thing; namely pride, I just don't see our oft' fractured voice being loud enough.
K
With regard to the role stalkers with or without 'qualifications' have to play in soliciting change c/o presenting carcasses of a single quality that screams but one thing; namely pride, I just don't see our oft' fractured voice being loud enough.
K
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