SGA campaign for female deer season succeeds.
- Thread starter gixer1
- Start date
And back in the room, maybe 41 pages.Buy a packet of Settlers, for your discomfort around some metallic objects?
The main argument was not based on deer welfare, but stalker mental wellbeing.
And it is a pure own goal.
“Killing things is stressful and unpleasant you say? So much so that you’re demanding it be restricted? Well, since you you asked so persuasively, we’ll give you what you asked for. Stalking is henceforth banned. Next!”
If it is so necessary to shoot out of season, Get A16 filled in.?
Don't worry, if Idris Elba gets his way we'll all be using blunt tipped knives so no longer and option.
K
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
Not to mention that all these poor mentally anguished Scottish stalkers have access to firearms. It's not a stretch to see antis suggesting that maybe their FACs should only be valid for a year so they can have a mental health assessment to make sure they're not going to go wibble. After all, hinds are still pregnant in February so the issue is still there.
To those that say the foetus needs a knife running threw in. Who will take me out and show me this cause I doubt any of you will have actual evidence of it. Its just people wanting to keep the season as it is so deer keep breeding so they can keep selling stalking at inflated prices.
David Barker
Well-Known Member
Scottish gamekeepers 'spared torment' of pregnant deer cull
Planned changes to when deer can be shot as part of efforts to protect habitats have been scrapped.
www.bbc.com
Note the following:
1. "Gamekeepers say they have been spared the mental torment of shooting pregnant red deer at times when they are close to giving birth."
2. "The Scottish Gamekeepers Association (SGA), which opposed the proposal, said gamekeepers would have been "sickened" by the prospect of killing a heavily pregnant hind and its large unborn calf."
K
And since when have red deer been "close to giving birth" in March, ffs?Scottish gamekeepers 'spared torment' of pregnant deer cull
Planned changes to when deer can be shot as part of efforts to protect habitats have been scrapped.
Note the following:
1. "Gamekeepers say they have been spared the mental torment of shooting pregnant red deer at times when they are close to giving birth."
2. "The Scottish Gamekeepers Association (SGA), which opposed the proposal, said gamekeepers would have been "sickened" by the prospect of killing a heavily pregnant hind and its large unborn calf."
K
The BBC report just further exagerates the utter nonsense that SGA have unleashed to the media.
I hope they (the SGA) are thoroughly ashamed of their lack of knowledge of basic deer biology.
If there's a genuine deer welfare reason for not culling Scottish hinds in March, then I'd be glad to hear it and give it due consideration. But you've got to admit that the "heavily pregnant" and "close to giving birth" argument just isn't it.
Im not sure anyone should be 'ashamed' for having a different opinion to others.
And FWIW killing a doe with a fetus inside it and worrying about the feelings of the stalker is somewhat ironic, given the same stalker is likley to kill any other deer without the same concerns.
At what age does an animal have to be before it becomes acceptable to kill an animal for sport or conservation? How old does a fetus have to be before it becomes unacceptable for the does carrying it can be culled?
If a species would go into decline if does/fetus were shot, then logically one would do all one could to support the population all things being equal, and not shoot such animals.
However, my understanding is that generally deer numbers are considered to be increasing and control is necessary.
If there was an argument based on the populations/the animals welfare then i could perhaps see this differently but the distinctions in age of a fetus seem arbitrary to me.
I've posted this paper before - the scientific evidence that it is highly unlikely that a near term foetus suffers any distress:
I think this has probably got more to do with a few influential estate owners being worried that if "their" hinds cross the march (see what I did there?) and get shot at a time when they would not have chosen to shoot them themselves it may reduce their cull (and hence their revenue) in the following season.
So all about keeping deer numbers up for the few, not welfare overall.
So all about keeping deer numbers up for the few, not welfare overall.
Most people that get hit by a bus don’t “suffer” really, as they don’t know about it - but it doesn’t make it happening a good thing.
One thing that isn’t mentioned here is how all of a sudden the government is all for deer being shot, and they paint it under the guise of “welfare”….absolute nonsense in that regards and if anyone believes that they are idiots, the only reason they want deer shot is the tree agenda, and it’s not about environmental impact issues - we know that by the fact they plant trees in mosses and bogs which are better carbon sinks than the trees they plant that ruin these - the only reason the government is happy for deer to be shot is it gets them money by helping support the tree planting scam - someone is getting rich out of it.
The knife to the foetus point - yes, I have done this, regardless of what people say, no one can confirm what the foetus feels with any certainty, and they absolutely do not die at the same time as the doe in all instances, and are moving when the gralloch is extracted, granted, it likely won’t be for long but if I can reduce at all for humane reasons I will, and most people will perform are the gralloch to help it decompose faster anyway.
There seems to be some sarcasm and humour being pointed at stalkers mental well-being…some will be effected by this, I think it’s only natural and the day I stop caring about the welfare of the target species is the day I’m done, nothing at all the matter with trying to be humane and considerate when getting a task done, if you think you are “well’ard” because you don’t….carry on, my god how tough you look…
Some of our "Less feeling" types are probably a good fit to play characters like Dexter.
I think this is unfair, we have differing views about the fetus and whether its 'matters' whether the doe is shot at a certain stage of pregnancy.There seems to be some sarcasm and humour being pointed at stalkers mental well-being…some will be effected by this, I think it’s only natural and the day I stop caring about the welfare of the target species is the day I’m done, nothing at all the matter with trying to be humane and considerate when getting a task done, if you think you are “well’ard” because you don’t….carry on, my god how tough you look…
I have yet to see a stalker on here suggest anything other than a quick clean kill is the most desirable objective of the shot.
What i find difficult understand is at what stage do you consider the fetus relevant in the gestation period? The 'age' of the fetus and therefore its state of development will be dependant on precisely when the doe became pregnant, not some arbitrary line in the sand.
If the doe has conceived then at any stage after the rut a fetus will die
Why is it any more unfair than some making it seem like because some people are concerned about it they must be less effective or “weak” in some way?
To me, If it’s noticeable and moving when removed with the gralloch and has fur it’s pretty far through, and can be distressing ending a life before it has started, so I shoot pregnant does and followers? Of course, do I enjoy doing it? - no, absolutely not. It’s a necessity. Of course “out of sight, out of mind” comes into it - I wouldn’t deny that - and ignorance of it can be better.
Do I want them to be commonly even further on? No, and the doe’s need to get some respite.
As I said, the numbers game could suggest that politics in involved, and will differ in areas - down south there absolutely is an issue with Fallow and munties/CWD - I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
Scotland will have areas like that to although I’m not sure government numbers are to be trusted as they have an iron in that fire and having spoken to Heli count people where they “think” they may have counted the same group twice it can be a bit of a lottery.
I was told from a reliable source that there was a request for MP’s reps to see a number of late gestation hinds shot - and observe first hand the experience, I believe this experience went a long way to the decision that has been made…I guess they weren’t as “tough” as some…
We are all entitled to our views, your perception about others is noted, but i still maintain it is an unfair characterisation.
With regards to comments of others about the stresses. the answer to that is simple is do not shot does who are heavily pregnant, or whatever other metric you choose. This applies wherever does are shot who may be pregnant.
I would bring you back to the point that shooting does after the rut inevitably leads to the death of fawns, unborn, and unseen but still dead.
On the numbers, oi agree there is uncertainty, nothing i have read says otherwise. There seems to be broad consensus that numbers are on the rise across the UK, but no doubt different areas/species will respond differently.
I am not sure whether i missed it but as far as i can see the season in Scotland allow shooting of red, sikka, fallow does during the same periods, with female Roe up to end of March.
Deer Open Season - The British Deer Society
UK deer open seasons have been set up to give our wild deer protection during key times and support sustainable and healthy populations.
bds.org.uk
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